Lead Paint Law Holds Contractors to Stiff Safety Standards

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Comments

B Williams

Subject: lead

Ever since the EPA has passed this insane RRP rule, I have been waiting for the new program abating lead from all the people's teeth that have had them filled with the junk. How in the world can a little dust be more of health threat then having anything you eat or drink instantly lead tainted? Shouldn't their at least be a waiver for people with lead fillings so they don't have to follow such stringent rules? I am only half-kidding here. Shouldn't lead filling removal be of a concern if this regulation is truly to protect people? Where was the EPA back in the 70's when I was unknowingly having my life endangered by a trip to the dentist?

kelly

Subject: retrofit windows over lead painted windows

I hired a window manufacturing company locally in Los angeles to install retrofit windows. My house was built in 1960 like most houses in the valley and probably has lead paint over the windows. After the workers started their installation I noticed that the original frame was not replaced or covered. Basically, they push a window into the existing window, leaving the lead covered frame still exposed. I have no clue why those companies are even allowed to do a job like this. If you choose not to disturb the lead, and use a retrofit window, the installers should at least use a final cover for the frame and seal it with silicon. I contacted our sales person, mad as hell, asking him to cover the frame. His reaction: more money.

I wouldn't even agree to half a job! Yes, construction companies!!! You will never ever do this job in your own home. You will know better and replace the whole window. You will also cover the lead painted frame.

I am disgusted and feel ripped off to again believe constructors that they will do the job 100%.

Every time I did a job in my house: painting, tile, and now windows...it is all done 50%...never 100% correctly.

I am happy the government is doing something about it. The profit in the construction industry are so huge that the least companies should have is certification, licenses and permits to make sure they don't take shortcuts.

And that is just what I think.

chris

Subject:

I have done construction for over 25 yr on homes that are pre 1978 and have never ever heard of anyone pregnant or under the age of 6 having any problems from any renovation that was done. Who makes this stuff up any way? After the last two years I have had hanging on to my business by a thread due to the recession I guess this is the final curtain. I guess I'll go on welfare if I cant get a job flipping burgers. Thanks EPA.

Brian

Subject: Lead Awareness

Thank you, EPA, for these rules. Chris, this stuff isn't "made up". We live in a home with lead paint and our child had very high levels of lead in her system. Please take a look at what this does to a person. While yes - we didn't know what was really happening in the past, it doesn't mean we should continue this way. Rather than seeing this as a "final curtain" for your business, why not actually get certified and then help people understand the dangers and risks they are putting their children at for going with anyone NOT certified? We just paid almost double the amount for a contractor who was certified. Wouldn't having double the money in your pocket (*although you do need to take extra precautions!) actually help your business more? Unfortunately, too many people blame this on the EPA and continue business as usual, harming our children and our future.

Tricia

Subject:

The EPA wants to protect us against the hazards of lead paint. How about protecting us from the dangers of starvation? My family’s bread and butter is remodeling jobs on older homes. And with the economy as it is, make that our bread. We can't afford butter. Everyone in this business has already taken a beating. I call this the final nail in the coffin of my husband's business.

Let's just call this what it is... a bunch of bureaucrats creating jobs for themselves, not to mention what is being collected in fines. So the EPA is planning on crippling a major segment of our economy in the name of “protecting us.”

Of course this is like pulling bricks from your foundation to build the walls. It might work for a little while but in the long run, down comes the house. I hope that our citizens realize that small business is the foundation of our economy? If our government isn't supporting the small businesses, then we don't stand a chance. Is this really what our citizens want?

Brian

Subject: Thank you, EPA

Tricia,

Yes - this is EXACTLY what we want from our government. We have a child with high lead levels, and it turns out it came from lead paint in our home that she was eating. My brother did renovation with someone who had no clue and ended up sanding their lead paint. The lead dust was all over the place and was ingested by their child. Please don't blame organizations set up to do GOOD for our citizens just because your husband's business is having an issue. Having proper certifications should allow your husband's business to charge more and be more profitable. After seeing these issues, I am very glad that our country is doing more to educate everyone about this, and I would hope that both you and your husband help educate others about this as well. It would certainly help you in business.

Katie

Subject:

I recently got an estimate for new gutters and the company wants to charge an addition $1000 because of the new EPA law - because his guys need to wear protective covering, yet prior to this, he told me his guys always wear protective covering?! Is this guy hosing me?

Trump

Subject: no he's not hosing you, washington is

This is a silly law and it was created to add costs and Washington jobs. This contractor is following the law, and asking you to pay for it, per the law. Sorry you don't like the cost for a useless law.

Angie's List staff

Subject:

In response to your comment, CD:

The new Environmental Protection Agency regulation does not address issues related to buying and selling your home. However, since 1996 federal law has required that sellers must disclose to buyers any known information about lead-based paint and lead-based paint hazards before selling houses built before 1978, the year lead-based paint was banned in the U.S.

Sellers must provide potential buyers with any records pertaining to the same and provide a federally approved pamphlet on lead hazards. Potential buyers also must be given a 10-day period to conduct a risk-assessment or inspection for lead-based paint and lead-based paint hazards.

Landlords have the same obligations toward potential renters before a lease takes effect.

To read more about disclosure requirements, visit the EPA’s Web site: http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/leadbase.htm.

CD

Subject:

I've been painting my (built in 1961) own house since 1987 when we bought it. Are we going to have to prove there is no lead in the walls that we have painted over and over when we sell?

Amber

Subject:

I just had the lead clearance test done after some work was done and it cost me over 500 dollars! We are a couple just starting out and we dont have that kind of money to be getting tests like this done every time we want to work on our home that was built in 1930.

Larry

Subject:

Yes I'm EPA Certified. $220.00 plus 300. for epa $520.00 For flooring contractors, to do a larges bath 10x7 first in CA no one will tell us where to dispose of garbage, It Has to be treated as hazardous Waste but they did say for under 220lbs of garbage A MONTH the test on how hazard the garbage is is 330.00 upto 3 tests at 110 each, plus hazard dump fees, plus plastic, tape, suits, claeners and a very long list with 2 to 3 times the labor. In the last few years its been break even on jobs , No one will pay 3 to 4 times the price of the job Now.
This is going to kill the pre 78 construction

brian

Subject:

Uncle Sam will protect YOU... no matter what it may cost YOU.

Bernie

Subject:

Doesn't make sense to me. We are getting a tax credit to save energy, but we have to pay about $100 extra per window to keep our kids safe... can some unravel that for me. I can understand the need for public day care,schools etc,but homeowners should have the right to choose. Nobody wins here the homeowner or the contractor.

CC

Subject:

I attended the course today, and would say that the "professional" replacement window companies are in trouble. Where were the window manufacturers lobbyers when we needed them?
When I returned home tonight I decided to calculated the total amount of 6mil plastic it would take to replace my daughters bedroom window in my house. It would take minimum 330 square foot to conform to EPA standards (1 piece 10'x20' outside, 6'x10' under window , 3' x 7' to close off the door way to bedroom, and 8'x 6' to wrap up the old window for disposal). Guess where that ends up? You guessed it, the landfill. Cant wait to throw away a full house full of plastic on next job. Great thinking EPA..... Who are you protecting?

Barko

Subject:

I think we know what we have to do. We need to tell our customers we are now going to raise our prices again. I believe some customers are willing to pay the extra cost. But some people will tell the contractors there's no way I can afford this extra cost to have you work on my building. So guess what the contractor is going to do - they need to up-sale the jobs to all customers. This will include painting of any surface or any other projects that may need to be done on their building that is from 1978 or older, that has do with disturbing any painted surfaces on a building. I hope EPA understands what it's like to be a contractor in this economy. I hope this works for everybody with this new lead abatement program.

Rick

Subject:

The EPA estimates a cost of $35 per job to follow the new guidelines? That's insane. We're doing it already, and it costs more than that just in 6 mil plastic on a small job. then there is the set-up and takedown time, the record keeping, the cleaning, the cleaning verification...it is costing us EASILY $500 to $1000 on a $30K job, and that's after the initial investment and the inspection fees.

kevin

Subject:

the bill says it costs the private sector over $100 million. No big deal to those that print money, but to those that do not it is.

Hank

Subject:

DN -

Please read what I said:
"Yes, this has been going on a long time, and is not unique to this administration."

And what I *did* attribute as unique to this administration was NOT this particular regulation, but its intent to use regulation **in lieu of** law. I did NOT claim that this regulation was an example of that, and in fact gave a different example. My intent was to show that this situation will only be getting WORSE, not BETTER. That part I could have made clearer.

dn

Subject:

hank-
my understanding is that these regulations, although they go into effect this month, were scheduled by the last administration. you may not like the current administration, but you cannot blame everything on it.

Hank

Subject:

FYI - the EPA does not make "laws", hence titling this piece the "EPA Lead Law" is a misnomer, and indicates a fundamental misunderstanding. Laws can only be created by Congress.
We are now at the point in this country where **regulations**, made by executive branch agencies, rather than **laws** created by the peoples' representatives, are ruling our lives.
Yes, this has been going on a long time, and is not unique to this administration. What is unique is the propensity for this administration to use regulation **in lieu of** laws, when it cannot pass the laws it wants. The best, most current, example is the intention of the EPA to essentially regulate "cap & trade" into existence, regardless of the fact that the Congress seems unable to pass a "cap & trade" law.

Laura

Subject:

I work for a window replacement company and am looking at charging homeowners an additional $75 a window for pre 1978 homes. My salesmen are really concerned about the non certified companies and how it will effect them when our companies prices are more expensive than theirs. I think this is going to be a bad situation. I was asked by one salesman if they can turn in their competitors if they are not certified. I think the EPA is going to get alot of phone calls turning in violators.

Chris

Subject:

My wife got so wigged out about lead that she had all three of our kids tested...no lead whatsoever in their blood. This after doing much renovation to our 1937 house. We're clean people anyway, so I think an ounce of prevention, like a regular vaccuuming schedule, goes a long way to prevent any problems.

charlie

Subject:

Uncle sam PLEASE STOP PROTECTING ME!!!! Its gone way to far.

Kurt

Subject:

The EPA fee is not just $300. It is $250 for each trained individual, + $300 for the firm. This is $550 for every trade except lead abatement that is significantly more. Contractor insurance rates will go up as well due to the new lead safe practices liability. I have already turned down three small interior remodels in older homes with children as a direct result of this law. I am discouraging people from performing minor interior renovations that are not necessary. Larger projects that can be isolated to an entire section of the house can make sense. However, tearing into one wall to replace a window, some trim, patch some plaster, etc. in an occupied house is no longer feasible. I make it a point to really interview potential clients over the phone now, ask how old the house is, if there are other contractors, are they EPA certifies, how much are they charging, etc. A lot of the times the estimated project cost of the uncertified (and sometimes unlicensed) contractors is under the cost of the required EPA protection alone.

Another tip, licensed contractors are not only qualified building professionals, they are fingerprinted and have passed a criminal background check. There is a reason that unlicensed contractors have no license.

Please be careful. If you cannot afford a project, postpone until you can do it right with the best firm available. It's not worth putting your family at risk.

Kurt

Subject:

I took the class, scored 100% on the test and was the first one done. Basically, it is now impossible to work on a pre 1978 home with children. The EPA law is in direct violation of OSHA laws. You are not allowed to work on 6 mil plastic. Your ladder will slide out from under you. Shame on the EPA for lying about the cost. There will be a class action law suit against the EPA by both contractors and homeowners. If you own a pre 1978 home with lead paint you will not be able to find a legit contractor who follows the rules without paying an extravagant amount of money and your home value just went down significantly. You will now have to disclose that your house has lead base paint to new buyers. The first time violation of the lead law is $65,000 (double $32,500 for knowingly violating the law).

Angie's List staff

Subject:

Thanks for your comment, Julie!

Angie’s List will be adding an icon to the profiles of contractors who are certified by the EPA in lead-safe practices. The icon will be accompanied by the following text: “EPA Lead-Safe Certified: The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has certified this company as trained in proper lead safety techniques for work that may disturb lead paint in homes, schools and child-care facilities built before 1978.”

We have added these icons to the profiles of firms that had been certified through mid-March so if you're a contractor and your company has been certified since then, please contact us at CompanyConnect@AngiesList.com so that we can update your profile.

Angie's List staff

Subject:

Thank you for you comment, Gary!

Many window replacement companies will have to become certified under the new Renovation, Repair and Painting Program. In fact, there were several window replacement professionals in a lead-safe renovators class reporter Emily Udell attended in Indianapolis in February.

Any renovation that disturbs more than 6-square-feet section of paint on the interior or 20-foot section on the exterior of a home built before 1978 will have to be conducted by a certified firm. However, if a company is performing work only on homes built after 1978, for example, they would not have to be certified.

Leland Finley

Subject:

Cost to Firm and 1 employee is around $800-$850 for certification FOR 1 STATE. Additional states are $35 EACH.
Only 1 trainer in Kansas City area. I won't do anything on houses build before 1980 if it involves disturbing Paint.

Julie Twichell

Subject:

Will Angie's list be including whether firms are EPA certified? That would be useful. Also I'd like to correct a previous comment; the EPA firm certification fee for renovators is $300. If you also want to be a be certified to do a job specifically to address lead paint hazards it's $550 and has different requirements. Go to www.epa.gov/getleadsafe for more info.

Rod Sperr

Subject:

Colorado. EPA CERT cost300.00 class 240.00. 35.00 is a joke. Time to do paperwork and post notices will cost three times that. Their cost is based on the minimum of plastic needed. You will need to enclose an entire room. I'm looking at a minimum of 350.00

Gary Roe

Subject:

How does this effect replacement window companies who quite often leave behind the chipped paint areas?

Deb Kutrieb

Subject:

I live in Wisconsin and just went to an informational meeting on this. In Wisconsin, the laws are stricter than EPA's, so be aware that your state laws might be stricter than the federal laws. Also both the company and an individual on the project has to be certified lead removers. It's an 8-hour course that costs $250. The certification costs around $35-$50 and lasts 4 years in my state, but it varies. www.epa.gov/lead

Sean Campfield

Subject:

I recently took the Lead Renovators course, scoring 100 on the test. For the EPA to guesstimate $35 in additional costs, it makes me wonder if I took the correct course. The course I took suggested creating double walled plastic airlocks, completely covering rooms affected by work with plastic on the walls, ceilings and floors and also use swifters to clean every nook and cranny. We even received a guide card showing how to judge the color of used swifters and whether they are to dirty or not. I applaud the EPA finally getting serious about this lead problem, but I hope they take a more advanced look at the costs that will accrue as we Contractors implement these changes. $35 would not even cover the additional materials let alone the extra labor, the broom clean days are gone.

eric hampton

Subject:

Duh, Thats what the government planned on. Thats why they put sanctions and restrictions on things like this. Whole lotta money to be made off of enforcing this crap. Job security. Can you blame them? I do it if I had that kind of power!!!

John Christiansen

Subject:

Check out the MA Childhood Lead Paint Poisoning Prevention law. If you own a pre-1978 home, you've got a lot of responsibility on your plate.

Jim Symington

Subject:

This is just going to open a black market for illegal repairs.

John

Subject:

People need to understand this is all about money. They do not care about your safety. Like i said it's about one thing. MONEY!!! If they really cared they would have a EPA person at every job.

Bob

Subject:

I have no problem complying with any regulation the government imposes regardless of my personal belief. What I have a problem with is that the state I live in, requires all of us to be licensed, registered, and insured with them. The state has the list of all of us who are registered. NO ONE from any government has contacted us about this certification and its mandates. They have all of our information. They want to do radio ads to inform us ?

kim

Subject:

This new epa rule is nothing but a money grab. I have been painting & remodeling for nearly 20 years. I don't have lead in my system. I wear no special suits or masks usually. Think about it. Hundreds of thousands of contractors in every field have to pay a minimum of $350.00 to $550.00 for this special certification but the homeowner can do anything they want on their own without repercusions . We are talking billions of dollars to the epa which is a government entity. What do you think happens to all that money, not to mention the additional cost to the homeowner when they contract the work out. Bullcrap

Tim

Subject:

I do not understand what added expense you have other than the clearance test , Tarping and containing dust is the proper way to do the job. The people that are against this are not educated in proper construction. I am a operation Manager for a Restoration company , I am trained in lead. I went to the RRP certification class, the things they spoke of our company has been doing for years . The problem isn't the government , the problem is home builders and hack contractors maximizing there profits , Using the cheapest labor to be found . I hope this law weeds out the Hack contractors and undesirables and let the pros take care of business. The EPA have changes in place now on some of the regulations . We need to look at ourselves and what we do rather than do the easy thing like pass the blame to someone else .

Jim

Subject:

Great! With this additional $75 per window charge, I will not be able to replace my windows. Thanks Nancy Pelosi and congress for imposing another restriction via the EPA.

Bill

Subject:

What a joke~! This lead driven thing is just a scam~! Is it really so strange to NOT ALLOW your KIDS to chew on the trim or walls~! How did I ever make it to age 55 without the govt taking such great care of me~!

lee

Subject:

i will just be ignorant untill some headlines are made here in va no one advertises this law but i did see a class in a paint store very few contractors know about it. They need to spend millions to advertise it call & mail. Easy for the govt to do just create another branch of govt & print more money. Then get another nit wit to say it will only cost 35 bucks to comply. I want to go choke someone...Morons!

Kathy

Subject:

I hate to sound so cynical, but it is all about political contributions by the big home builders to the Democrats thinking that they could get people to tear down old homes and they could get Real Estate cheaper. Then they had to put a scary face on it....lead based paint. Lead based paint's risk has diminished substantially. It is also difficult to isolate this as the cause when kids are exposed to lead in the drinking water in some areas and lead in the paint on their toys etc.....

Mark

Subject:

I am 50 years old and a small contractor. We all grew up with lead paint and lead in the gasoline, isn't it amazing we are all alive. None of these things can be nearly as bad as they say or we would all be dead or brain damaged by now

Kathy

Subject:

I solicited bids from 2 licensed painting contractors to do some interior painting in my 1911 home. Most of the items to be painted were installed in 2003 and there is zero risk to anyone. The first said he was not interested in bidding due to this law. The second gave me a bid 3 times higher than expected. I ended up painting it myself. I would love to have helped out a small local contractor, but these guys are terrified of this law. I called the EPA and said that it is ridiculous to have these rules when the items eing painted are only 7 years old. She said it makes no difference. The fact that they are in my house creates liability. My understanding is that lead levels have decreased significantly in the past decade due to so many people remodeling. This is just crazy!

Gwen

Subject:

The EPA's only responsibility should be to inform people about possible hazards and unsafe conditions. You check the constitution: I didn't see one thing about the EPA and its powers. If you notify people of POTENTIAL problems, they can make up their own minds. AWARENESS is the key.

My home was built after 1978 but I lived in a home built in 1898 for 27 years, fully aware of the lead paint on the beautiful architecture, window and door frames. But it was my decision. And I would move back into that old house in a minute if it ever came up for sale. Renovating an old home is much better for the environment than building a bunch of condos slapped up in little time, without enough insulation, and with no personality. You shouldn't be penalized if you live in an old home.

I don't like the government making all my decisions for me. Besides, it's not the government's responsibility to do it. I agree with some of the previous comments: It's just another way for the EPA to expand its power and employee base,
but all it does is cause problems. It should stick to informing the public and let it go at that. They are running the small contractors out of business, and I would hire a small contractor over a large company anyday of the week.

I'm 65 years old and I've survived all of the things you've mentioned, and still have good health for my age. And, I've made MY OWN decisions without the help of the EPA.

With the economy the way it is, you should be figuring out how to help it, not hinder it.

Jurlesia

Subject:

In a shrinking economy with plummeting renovations and more and more jobs being lost daily, this new law seems punitive and yet another way for our government to lose more jobs. $35 added per project my A$$!!! Who the heck does these calculations? A consensus board of contractors or some lady whose pushing this agenda? I'd like to know. While lead paint issues need to be address, the way the govt is doing it is poorly thought out, hurts our already shrinking small businesses, and will encourage more illegal activity. Why not have a coalition with contractors and businesses represented, govt representation, and other necessary agencies involved in coming up with MEANINGFUL laws and regulations that will encourage and stimulate job growth while at the same time adding safety measures for lead-based risks??????? This whole thing seems haphazardly thrown together and is really yet another disappointment in the way our government is handled and the direction it is heading in.

Piotr

Subject:

I love this country, since I was 10 years old. I've grown with this love and respect to this country, despite being living in hostile regime, regime wich seeded hate to anything what was remaining USA, and its people. I still love. But why are you so self-destructive, why are you let your government to manipulate you so much? Why you people can step twice on same mine? Why are you at time of election listen to demogogues, who pursue their own agenda? I was working for 35 years doing remodeling of old houses. Often I was forced to burn, to scrape. to tear painted by lead paint wood. I never wear mask, uncomfortable. I didn't see child affected by this. Yesterday, I was looking on old house with another guy. We wanted to buy it, fix and he would live on 1 floor and rent 2nd. AT time, agent told us about new law. It is scared us. We decided do not attempt to buy this house. He will live in same apartment. Do not will be better to inform owners with prove of danger having lead based paint in their house? Let them decide when remove it. I have no agenda driving me to write this. Look at penalties this law imposing. Isn't this cruel? Please, do not retaliate on me for writing: it truth I am out of doing, what I was doing for those years. There is better way. To do nothing. Peter.

Zak Kreisman

Subject:

Jim,

I don't entirely agree about the black market. There is always going to be some level of illicit activity in any industry. I think the penalties are so strong, that it will prevent a huge influx of illegal repairs.

Kathy

Subject:

Just a few reference items concerning this law:
http://content.usatoday.com/topics/post/St.+Jude+Medical/63591319.blog/1

Lead levels have already dropped significantly. This law will cause people not to remodel or do it themselves- much more dangerous.
Unintended Consequences:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-02-16-motorcycleban_N.htm

I guess these kids should all go sit in front of the TV and play video games. Oh someone please stop these crazy folks!

Bill

Subject:

A long Story:
I just sold a building for less than it originally cost in 1982. In fact it was sold at one third the appraised value. The only stipulation was that it had to be sold in three days. That means three days after the first bid. No contract just a closing in three days. Why? Good you asked! They needed to demolish it by April 22. It was completed as scheduled. All the lead paint was disposed of afterwards. I explained this to my daughter that lives in a house built in 1867. Guess what. She did renovations.... done by a licenced contractor starting in May of 2010. I questioned why he did not protect the home from lead dust. Did not need to was the answer. My grandchildren now have higher than normal lead levels. The intrusive laws just make every service more expensive. Lower the value of our real estate further. The price of Home Depot and Lowes stocks even fell. In point of fact they are useless for all of the USA population other than the legal industry. Common sense makes more sense than these ridiculous laws. If the gov't used our taxes to educate the public rather than force workers to file papers and pay dues and fines we all would be healthier.

Brad

Subject:

stephanie
Is the opt out law still in effect, where a client can waive claim as long as no child is in the house and no pregnant woman?

Steph, this opt out form ends July 6th. and refers to children 6 yrs of age and younger

Steve

Subject:

The “Lead Police” from the City’s Environmental Services Division are apparently patrolling San Diego’s older neighborhoods; when they find any peeling paint, it is tested and if lead is found, the homeowner is ordered to remove the lead and repaint within 60 days or face fines and other legal actions.

It’s a given that most older homes are owned by people on the lower end of the economic scale who simply don’t have thousands of dollars on hand for a quick home improvement project.

While there is no argument that lead is poisonous--we’ve known that for several centuries and it shouldn’t have been in the paint in the first place--the mandate to immediately remove lead paint from all older homes falls disproportionally on the poor and working class. This requirement will depress the value of older homes, forcing the people who can least afford it into deeper debt, foreclosure, and ultimately out of their homes.

Homeowners will have to choose between taking out a second mortgage which they cannot afford or possibly a short sale and essentially walking away after paying into a property for many years.

And the final insult the city chooses to add to the injury? When the work is complete, the homeowner is required to pay another several hundred dollars for retesting.

Draconian environmental laws can have repercussions that far outweigh the advantages; in this case forcing people to choose between a lead-free home and no home is not good law.

If the city is going to place such stringent mandates on homeowners and require immediate compliance (60 days is barely enough to get any home improvement project underway, let alone one which requires a difficult loan qualification process) then the city should be providing financial assistance.

My girlfriend and I are currently experiencing this firsthand. Finding a qualified contractor has been an absolute nightmare; we are badgered by the city officials at least weekly and no matter how hard we try to comply, the rules seem to change daily. It has been a very emotionally trying experience. Now we are discovering that it is going to be even more difficult to find a disposal firm who can remove the debris.

So be forewarned: If you have an older home and the paint is in anything less than pristine condition, get your house painted before you get caught. If you have to do it under orders from the city, your project will be monitored every step of the way and it will cost many times more than an ordinary repaint.

Brad

Subject:

BTW
Who here has brain damage,high blood pressure, low sperm count except for me?? I blame my father for this, not lead paint.. The lead safe class I attended, they passed around a vial containing lead paint dust, enuf to contaminate a 1500 Sq Ft house. Visually, there was nothing in the vial, I think it was empty!! Even so.. if there was a speck of dust, there is NO possible way of containing such a minute amount. SO, if your house was built b4 1978, and it has lead paint, its already contaminated, way b4 ne contractor steps foot inside.

Vern

Subject:

I made an offer on a home built in 1979. The Inspector I hired to do the inspection on 6-19, has indicated I do not need to have the house tested for lead because it was built after 1978. Is he correct?

Steve the plumber

Subject:

This law isn't only caused by big govt. It is also started by big construction firms. They go to their senators and reps. and start these laws to be voted on.

That is why small business is going out of business. Do you know how many certifications, city, state and county licenses a plumber has to have to be legal and just do his business? This isn't counting the special permits and inspections that have to be paid for and passed on to the customer.

The small business man can't pay for all of this but the big companies can. So the little guy can either go out of business or just do small jobs that don't have to be inspected. It sometimes takes half a day just to get an inspection off on a small jog. A one horse company can't afford this but the big concerns can.

Kathy

Subject:

It is unfortunately the wave of the future. The "Greenies" all want us to live like drones in condominiums that all look alike with no character what so ever (unless you call different colors of corrugated metal character) so that we can walk to work. I have studied LEED and Green Practices and read books on this- it truly is the goal of the movement. If you live in Seattle. just look at the massive number of character homes that have been wiped out to build ugly condos and apartments (Ballard and Downtown Seattle ,Rainer). In downtown Seattle the McGuire building was built so poorly in 2001 that it has to be torn down after NINE years (the cabling for pre-stressing the concrete sounds like it wasn't done properly according to the newspaper). If it is your choice to live in a cheaply built, but expensive condominium- then do it. But don't tear down homes and buildings with character to do so.
My 1911 home is built like a fortress (back when wood was dense and beams were huge and ran the entire length of the structure). My house passed the lead test with flying colors, too! We still had our workers double tent the area and wear respirators as a precaution. To make this a regulation just makes more homeowners attempt jobs they have no business doing- like taking out load barring walls.
Please keep your change!

Larry

Subject:

This law has almost put me out of work, I cant even bid $50 to cover cost, I've had to turn down jobs to stay legal, the work still gets done, but they hire illegal. If our government wants to help, start first with cigarettes ,
1 out of every 5 deaths are related to smoking, second hand smoke. It also kills Kids!!!!
Drinking, look at the deaths and car wrecks that kill, I dont know anyone that has died from lead, but lots from cancer and drinking linked deaths. the problem us small contractors dont have the money to payoff the government,

Kathy

Subject:

Julie,
The risks are concentrated in a small group of the population that are also vulnerable to other risk factors. It is people like you that scare me to death. Get your facts straight before you speak.

Julie Twichell

Subject:

This is a regulation that is way overdue. Let's not forget why this was put into place. Children and adult workers have been lead poisoned and suffered long term health effects from unsafe work practices for way too long. Change is hard but it can be done. Changing the standard of practice when working on older building is simply the right thing to do and well worth the cost.

Amber

Subject:

"Amber
I just had the lead clearance test done after some work was done and it cost me over 500 dollars! We are a couple just starting out and we dont have that kind of money to be getting tests like this done every time we want to work on our home that was built in 1930."
4/26/2010 11:29:46 PM

As with purchasing an older home, there will always be something to fix. I don't understand why so many are "up in arms" over this; when you look at an older home for rental purposes or personal usage, you are aware of the risks. If it is something that no one is interested in, then buy new.
Same rule applies with the purchase of a vehicle. You are aware that it may nickel and dime you to death; if one doesn't want the headache, then purchase new.
Now back to the housing. For the folks that have pre 1978 housing; if you don't want to pay the costs of how to properly handle lead based paint, sell the property. Allow it to become another persons problem.
If that doesn't settle well with you, then you should have done your homework before the purchase. Personally speaking, before I make a large purchase, I research every little detail so that I may make an informed decision. If one chooses not to conduct their business or personal affairs in such a manner, then that is your problem and you are consequently stuck.

Kathy

Subject:

Post 1980 homes have their own set of hazards, such as EFIS,ventilation problems, "Chinese" drywall (which is so much more of a health concern than lead based paint) and siding problems just to name a few. Kids also get lead from the water in drinking fountains and other lead based pipes and from childrens' toys painted with lead based paint in the last few years (much more dangerous because toddlers put them in their mouths). Old homes have been a constant factor. The real danger is homeowners being forced to do their own work because of the increased cost and the hysteria of people's reactions.

scott

Subject:

So you wanted change? You GOT IT.You think BP will get fined for dumping 1 million gallons of oil a day in the gulf? Think about it...BIG BROTHER TAKING OVER...GOOD LUCK

Dennis

Subject:

I have not seen anything about work performed by the homeowner. I do think that this has been a long time coming. We are closing on a 1955 home this month and were planning on starting a family. I was not aware of the lead paint issue until the disclosure paperwork. What you are all missing: Is this is an attempt to stimulate the new home building business? It will also stimulate the demolition industry. These old homes will be destroyed and new energy efficient homes will be built in their place. Resulting in less energy, cleaner environment, and new jobs for illegal workers.

jason

Subject:

Dan,
This law was passed under the Clinton admin. in truth it is just another way for liberals to make bigger gov. now there telling you what you can do in or to your own home sounds more like communism to me. i have been in construction and remodeling homes for over 15 years and i am about to get my lead paint certification ($190) then i have to certify my company ($300) and if the guidelines are as bad as i have been informed of not only will it drive up the cost of jobs but the thought of a $35,000 fine per day for missing one of there many rules is just to big of a risk to take

Chris

Subject:

This EPA law is ridiculous. They might as well start tearing down all the pre 1980 homes and start rebuilding them. Oh wait, better use thousands of square feet of plastic to cover that mess and buy everyone hazard suits. This is getting way out of hand. As an electrician who works in pre 1980 houses all the time this will raise my costs from reasonable to outrageous. Just to install an outlet in an older home now it will cost the homeowner about $50 more! That's insane! And better yet, since hardly anyone knows about this, I've already lost jobs to other contractors that aren't doing the classes for EPA. Our government needs to focus on fixing themselves, not their citizens.

stephanie

Subject:

Is the opt out law still in effect, where a client can waive claim as long as no child is in the house and no pregnant woman? This will price us out of business. Just one vac system is around $3000 and we need at least two to make a large job move at a slow pace.

Bobby

Subject:

Someone forgot to include landlords in ths mess. We must also attend this $150 class and register as a firm. Must also give out pamphlets and have renter sign that they received the lead notice and pamphlet. I must also register as a firm and pay $300 for this. WHY???? I am retired Military and did not fight for this. I fought for FREEDOM. WE need to start a writing campaign to out representatives to get this changed.
By the way inflation has increased the fine to $37,500 per day per incident.

Michael

Subject:

Hi Eric,
Please contact Kachina Lead Paint Solutions for all your training & supplies needs.
1888-800-5224

Eric

Subject:

I am a contractor who just learned of this today, so does anyone know the rule for window installations in Illinois?

kathy

Subject:

This law may have been on the books prior to this congress and administration however to continue with it in our current economy is despicable. It will only drive people under the table.

dan

Subject:

kathy-
this legislation was on the books prior to this administration. it is now going into effect. blame the guys that came before the current leaders.

Amber Zimmerman

Subject:

I am glad that the EPA is getting tough about this, for this is a matter that hits close to home for my family. My husband and I have been renting an apartment for 3 years, in a building that was constructed in 1900. When we received our lease, the lead disclosure was crossed out which raised a flag for us. I spoke with my childrens pediatrician who immediately sent our son for testing; his levels came back within a normal range. My son is now almost 3 and is developmentally behind and has been receiving early intervention services for almost 2 years. I took my children back this past Tuesday to be retested; today the doctor called to make us aware that my son's levels are "through the roof" and my daughters is elevated also.

Plus, we've been having black mold problems that we've expressed to our landlord who tried to blame us for the problem. He had a friend come up to do mold remediation, who then proceeded to use an electric sander on more than 6 square feet of interior space, with my kids in the same room!

I have been in contact with the EPA and our local State Health Dept. Now my son may be hindered for the rest of his life all for the ignorance of one person.

kathy

Subject:

I believe that this is a huge mistake! Anyone born before 1978 (and many younger people who grew up in old homes) grew up in homes with lead based paint and didn't have brain damage as a result. What about lead pipes? I do think that you should not eat vegetables grown within 10 feet of any home because of paint scraping. You also must take precautions against airborne dust from sanding. Shame on this administration!!! Way to kick an industry when it is down.

dave

Subject:

george you are right on. The government would rather have one large company responsible for 100 tradesmen, than 100 independent contractors to chase down at tax time. I have heard that Sam is deliberately making life complicated for smaller businesses for this reason. We all control the dust generated on our jobs using our own common sense and the common sense of the homeowner. I guess now the government is in charge of regulating common sense!

George

Subject:

I had some forethought in this area and took the lead course in 2007. I am a floor covering contractor. I try and stay up to date on regs. The last 2 1/2 years have been very hard to say the least. Now that this EPA regulation is in place I thought that I was in good shape. I was informed I need a refresher course. It was $140 in NY. I signed up and took the course. What a JOKE. The book was the same exact one as in 2007. I believe in being lead safe but the regs are used to bilk money from us contractors and make more jobs for the government employees. This as with too many gov regs is just a money scheme. I think the gov is trying to push out the small business people in this country so the conglomerates and big box stores will control everything.

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?
I second the original question (still unanswered). Speaking as someone who logged in today to try to find an attorney, I see this category as one that's exactly what I have my Angie's List membership for:

1. It's important that I find a good one
2. I'm not an expert enough to know myself who is a good one
3. The industry is full of advertisements and misinformation
4. I wish I knew what experiences other people have had


?
I don't care about lawns--I planted mine in clover and don't have to mow it. When I do need to mow I use a rotary Fiskars mower, which is great--or a scythe. That's right--a scythe (the European type, which is smaller, and it's very good exercise). Gas-powered mowers, chemical fertilizers and weed killers--all nasty stuff that gets into everyone's air, soil, and water. I'm sure my neighbor doesn't like my wildflowers, semi-wild pockets of fruit bushes, and unmown areas and yes, dandelions (I have 10 acres) but that's too bad. It's better habitat for wildlife, especially the pollinators on which our food supply depends. I think this obsession with the Great American Lawn is a waste of time and resources. Plant some food instead.


?
I'm not sure Angie et. al. want you to have a complete answer to this question. By re-subscribing at the Indiana State Fair in 2012, I think I paid $20.00 per year for a multi- year subscription. Maybe even less. At the other extreme--and I hope my memory isn't faulty about this--I think the price, for my area, for ONE year was an outrageous $70.00. And they debited me automatically without warning. I had to opt out of that automatic charge. I like Angie's List, but if some of the companies they monitor behaved the way they do in this respect, they'd be on some sort of Pages of Unhappiness. I'll be interested to see if this comment gets published or censored out of existence.
?

That's very difficult to answer without seeing the house. As one poster said, the prep is the most important part. On newer homes that don't have a lot of peeling paint, the prep can be very minimal even as low as a couple or a few hundred dollars for the prep labor.

On a 100 year old home with 12 coats of peeling paint on it, then the prep costs can be very high and can easily exceed 50% of the job's labor cost.

A 2100 sq ft two story home could easily cost $1000 just for the labor to prep for the paint job. That number could climb too. Throw in lots of caullking  or window glazing, and you could be talking a couple or a few hundred dollars more for labor.

Painting that home with one coat of paint and a different color on the trim could run roughly $1000 or more just for labor. Add a second coat  and that could cost close to another $1000 for labor.

For paint, you may need 20 gallons of paint. You can pay from $30-$70 for a gallon of good quality exterior paint. The manufacturer of the paint should be specified in any painting contract. Otherwise, the contractor could bid at a Sherwin-Williams $60 per gallon paint and then paint the house with $35 Valspar and pocket the difference. $25 dollars per gallon times 20 gallons? That's a pretty penny too.

That was the long answer to your question. The short answer is $2000 to $4000 and up, depending upon the amount of prep, the number of coats, the amount of trim, and the paint used.