Few Gains on Chronic Pain Treatment

Leave a Comment - 92



Subject: Can you hear us

We have people out there that is trying to get us all in one spot so we have a voice in numbers. You will not be heard unless we get together. The old saying Can you hear us ...l35ugNow has some meaning. We have no one to talk to when things don't make sense. National pain Report is a program stay always from sales on it just listen to people in pain. A retired pharmacist by the name of Steve Ariens can make you understand things better. He really has goo ideas about getting together and being heard. Nice person his wife is in so much pain. Google him
This is all I know to do to help . We have to come out in numbers to be hear. The politicians are going to drown us and take our voice away...silence us. Don't let that happen. It's our country we have rights.
Thank you
Washington State


Subject: Thank you I knew it was true

Thank u I knew it was true the way some people in that field think I am also a pain management patient with alit of different severe pain I can't sleep most night because of the pain being so bad pill seeker never that just a strong woman who has to continue to work to take care of my children 1 I was in an abusive relationship that cause problems down the line 2 I've been hit from behind and have an herniated disc and a pitch nerve that cause my hold leg to go numb and so much pain it's hard to walk just finished dealing someone just as dumb minded as u never even knew who I was just walked in no eye contact and just denied my any help just kept talking about my neck pain and I was never there for that reason so before u start to judge any ones pain just know your not God! He blessed me with an great doctor that actually look at his patients mri and know their pain


Subject: Chronic Pain

This message is to the person who stated that all the people on this forum are drug seekers.
Most people who are truly suffering from chronic pain are not drug seekers. I am disgusted that you would come to this forum, and criticize people, and stereotype ALL chronic pain patients, who are seeking these types of forums, as drug seeking liiers.Yes, there are drug seekers, and there are a lot of people who are umdertreated for pain, and because of that, they look for more pain relief and get labeled for doing so... Our society has yet to be able to effectively treat moderate to severe chronic pain with co-morbid addiction.
I would imagine you have nothing else better to do then crash forums, and take advantage of people who are vulnerable Bc of there pain.
Do yourself a favor today. Find a forum for people who lack empathy, and insight.


Subject: Doctors dealing with chronic pain patients

They lack education to help people with pain. They don't know what to do when they tell chronic patients what to do and it doesn't work. Rather than look like they don,t have the right treatment they just put the blam e it on patient ....not me I'm a smart doctor they must be seeking drugs.... It's their fault.
That's it

connie wagner

Subject: pain and control

When a person has pain in a specific area then procedures can and often do help. My husband gets an injection in his neck about once a year and uses hydrocodone and muscle relaxants in between. When the meds quit working then he goes for the injection. On the other hand my pain issues cover every square millimeter of my body from the soles of my feet to the top of my head, from finger tip to finger tip. The list of reasons is long so I wont go into it. My point is that I would have to have 20-30 injections monthly in order to have any hope of relief while in the mean time suffering from the injections. I get enough relief to have some quality of life from fentanyl and dilaudid which are not only less expensive but also don't cause more pain than they help. Because of this I am a "drug seeker". I take my meds literally by the clock (I set a timer), would NEVER sell or otherwise share my meds because I need them (I am given just enough without one extra pill or patch and cannot fill the prescriptions even 1 day early). I have just learned that after 8 years I am going to have to cold turkey off my meds because the new provider (the turnover of providers is seriously often!) isn't comfortable filling my prescriptions. Being in a small town 8 hours from the nearest city I am stuck. Going off these drugs like this can cause stroke, heart attack and who know what else but I don't have a choice.

Sandy K

Subject: I totally understand

Hi Connie, you could have been telling my story almost verbatim. The only difference being that my husband does not have any pain issues. I have over 20 medical conditions, with the majority being chronic pain related. I have been diagnosed with fibro/chronic fatigue for 7 years, plus chronic migraines, DDD, scoliosis, TMJ, and osteoarthritis. 2 months ago Lupus and RA has been added to my ever growing list. Due to a a reason I would rather not divulge on a public forum, I had to move from one state to another over a year ago. I had lived in the previous state for 10 years, where all my doctors and specialists had no problem with prescribing pain medication. The doctors in the state I moved to absolutely refuse to prescribe any type of pain meds. The only thing I was taking is oxycodone..period. Even the pharmacist here cannot understand why I can't get anything as she said there are patients getting numerous pain scripts filled. She gave me the names of the doctors prescribing them and I called them. Well since I haven't been a patient of theirs for over 5 years, they won't prescribe anything to me, or they refuse to accept me as a patient. I have gone to over 12 doctors, pain doctors included. My physician from the previous state I lived kindly gave me scripts for the Oxycodone for a year, and I am down to my last few pills before I will be going through withdrawal. I have several serious heart conditions, ie; a-fib, PVC's, MVP, and a few more. I am scared to death I will not make it due to the horrible symptoms of withdrawal, but the doctors here couldn't care less. I even had one laugh at me when I broke down and cried.
I will keep you in my prayers, Connie.

Peter Nowell

Subject: uncurable pain

We have to realize that there are some pains that the medical community is not sophisticated enough to attend to in the year 2016 and accept that fact.
One pain doctor said very naively that with proper pain management all pain can be taken care of. Not true.


Subject: Yes, you.

Lots of opioid-dependent folks posting here, whining because their local doctor knows them for exactly what they are -- children of entitlement who LIE about so-called "pain" so they can jack themselves up on the strongest pain relief available and avoid dealing with reality, by getting high as a goddamned kite.



Subject: Chronic pain

I hope you or your family never has chronic pain. You will look at life in a new light.


Subject: Leeroy

You are a knuckle dragging idiot! One day you will need help. Then you will learn what a little man you are!


Subject: Leeroy YOU

Check out my previous post to the terrible nurse on this thread. Much of what I said goes for you also! You have no clue what you're talking about. Way to make a blanket generalization! Come post on here when you've been close to someone taking opioids or you yourself end up needing them! Most people who are privileged and are abusing drugs would just go buy them off the streets idiot! Too bad you don't have any clue what your "complaining" about. Maybe you and the nurse who has sooo much compassion should get together and go around making generalized statements about a topic you know nothing about except what you've seen in some made up Hollywood movie! I bet you're some lonely old grouchy man that has no friends because they all can't stand your "I'm better than you" attitude!
I feel sorry for you and your lack of compassion in your life.


Subject: Leeroy that is probably one

Leeroy that is probably one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read. I had to cool myself down before responding. I am writing this while in pain. Pain I've had for nine months that gets more severe by the week. But I don't want sympathy. I work at my own business, I do pt through the pain, and I do my best every day. Nothing has helped. I am in pain mgmt and see a nuerosurgeon. I may need surgery. To paint me like some junkie because I take meds to help me work and sleep at night... I could feel my BP rise.

I'm no addict. I don't get high. And I don't appreciate your comment. Not after no sleep for two nights in a row. Not after a long work day. What the hell do you think I'm doing seeing specialists? I am getting help. To be honest were you to say anything like that to me in the flesh you would find out real quick what I deal with every day. Maybe you were drinking. By the way all Catholic priests are pedos, all people who drink are alcoholics, and everyone who buys a can of whipped cream goes gm home to huff it. You wanna play stereotypes I'm down.


Subject: The truth about pain patients

I've worked as a nurse in pain managment for 5 years and this field is absolutley draining. I work for legitimate wonderful, sympathetic and caring physicians and they are more than often victims of pill seekers. Majority of our patients are non-compliant, they over take their pills, takes friends and family member pills, we get calls about our patients selling there pills etc. And these are the same patients who are in office complaining of the most famous "low back pain". Don't get me wrong the patients have abnormal imaging studies but a mild to moderate bulging disc or herniated disc does not necessarily always is contribute to pain. Sciatica is not constant and daily it's episodic and can be managed with stretching and injections. Oh and no one wants therapy, therapy is always a fail. Unless you are dying or recovering from cancer I don't believe any human being needs to be on high doses of narcotics. Matter of fact we have cancer patients who are on LESS narcotics than the average neck and back complainers and they are our compliant patients. We never have problems out of our cancer patients it's always the joint, lbp, neck all the folks with the non-life threatening illnesses. People are not honest and will over exaggerate their pain to get medication increases and or more drugs. I see it everyday. If you are questioned as pill seeker thats because you have in some way exihibited some form of abbverherent behavior. Florida is full of people with legitimate pain problems who are addicted and or are selling their meds and that's reality.


Subject: Kara

I am a retired RN, and find your comments generalizing about individuals, and extremely offensive. I would NEVER judge patients as you feel is your right to judge others. How well do you even get to know them? I bet you are one of the RN's who never make eye contact. GET OUT OF NURSING. You are a harm to the profession, a harm to people, an amoral unethical judger. I've had chronic pain many years. I had ileofemoral DVT to ankle from pregnancy/genetic mutation. Since then, I've had 2 more. I went to UNC for a national expert on blood clotting, he had the chief interventional radiologist attempt to stent my left leg's dysfunctional venous system. He tried. He told me it was too much clot scar, tiny opening, and couldn't even push the stent through. His advice? Get a good pain management physician. It's been 27 years. I failed: nerve root ablation, nerve blocks, spinal blocks, spinal cord stimulator, accupuncture. Mine is not the usual type pain, but that doesn't matter. I cannot stand for long periods, this condition does worsen with age. I have no valves in the entire left leg deep venous system. Why don't you, Kara, go about your "job" for a day with a tourniquet around your thigh? My microcirculation does not exchange O2 and toxins. IF you are a real nurse, you know this is painful. I had to be forced to stop working as I, personally, LOVED IT. I made eye contact w/my patients, & knew them within minutes. My only regime that keeps me from lying in a bed with my leg high up on the wall, crying, has been an opiate regime which helps me have a daily life wherein I can function to some degree. For many years- no increasing dose. No getting high. Just, imagine this! relief of pain. Back in the day life spans were lessened, CP was managed by drinking alcohol, opium, with much worse side effects. CP patients and addicts are apples and oranges. The CDC had a secret group meet to make up policy on opiate treatment. WHY secret? Agenda. Two of the members were in PROP, an organization for rehabbing addicts. I figure this is for their agenda to increase clients. A CDC rep on TV stated "We found no evidence of opiates helping CP pt's (utilizing a 12 week study- please) I suppose PT and something not invented yet would help. Blow. MY mind. Or stated in their policy, people used to have CP without using opiates. Well isn't that nice. They also had lower life spans, utilized alcohol or opium, with terrible consequences, became reclusive and bitter, and also killed themselves. Well woo hoo that is GREAT. Who wants medical progress? I have benefited from it. When something is invented that is not opiate, I'll be first in line. So why the secrecy? Why put primary care dr's in this policy, no mention of board certified pain management dr's? AGENDA. Congress is investigating this policy made- look under Congress Committee on Oversight and Overreach. There is a Whistle Blower contact. I encourage anyone suffering from being lumped with addicts (I do not judge them either, they are in pain mentally and there is no mental health in US anymore unless cash up front- wow! that is similar to buying street drugs!) to contact this group. Judgement, bigotry, discrimination all make me totally sick. Bet you're a good Christian Kara. Y'know, one of the new political extremist fanatical judgers who want to make discrimination legal in our free country. Get the hell out of nursing. You are abhorrent. To the person who got off meds, and became a great physical specimen, you do not have intractable pain. I have neck and back pain, from old age; I do not seek opiate treatment for those. My dysfunctional leg? Well yes, it is pain every day, increasing with the day (huh wonder why? could be because it is dependent all day unless I pace myself). I too exercise, on a recumbent bike 3-4xweek, and weights 2xwk. Doesn't make my pain any less. Doesn't make me not have to pace my day. Those who judge, are perfect pricks. Those who don't, have suffered something. I always hope to the universe that those who are perfect, shall learn empathy. Empathy is created by living life through a difficult situation.

Jeff Hagan

Subject: The REAL truth about pain patients

Yes, many nurses, DO's, PA's and Pain Management MD's face many daunting judgement calls every single day. The offices are always busy, phones ringing, patients waiting, holding cups for urine samples...these individuals are not there for the paycheck. I believe most pain management clinics have good intentions, and most of the staff do their best to truly understand.

But to call patients whiny, non-compliant, self indulgent buyers and sellers of pills is so ignorant, there should be an IQ test before one can post, because these are pouty, never-had-a-chance, lucky overachievers who were probably bullied as children and have absolutely NO idea what they are talking about.

I agree, there are safer,and I will agree better methods of pain management - alternatives like water aerobics, acupuncture, hypnosis, pain pumps, lumbar stimulators...I was shocked at the comment of a 17 degree spinal curvature - mine was 67 degrees, after 8 discectomies and fusions. It's like a domino tower - move one and the ones above and below become more and more unsteady.

I had a head-0n collision in 1989 at an estimated 70 mph. No one was cited, it is a long story. But it began my journey thru this maze, and it is hardly black and white. Yes, I was on opiates, prior to and recovering from the first surgery. Then the second, third, fourth...and medicine has advanced since then, and that's great that laparoscopic procedures, nerve blocks, steroid injections have helped some. But for me and so many others, it is too late. I have had 3 physical therapists remove their hand from a handshake on discovering the titanium rods and screws from my neck to my hip, for fear of hurting me and a lawsuit. I rate my unmediated pain at an 8 to 9, but I still walk my Jack Russell (I get plenty of excercise). I tried every alternative to opiates imaginable - I have strict sleep hygiene, I don't watch tv, listen to music, read, or even have sex in the bedroom. My bed is ONLY for sleeping. I wear ear buds and have white noise in my ears for meditation. If I can't sleep in 20 minutes, I leave the room and read in the other two room, or listen to soft music. When I'm tired again, I try the sleep pattern again,again,
Again, rinse and repeat as necessary. If after 4-5 days of NO sleep, not even a nod, I develop grand mal seizures from the inhuman pain that keeps me up. 50%of all non-epileptic seizures are from sleep deprivation, and is the #1 cause of grand mal, tonic-clinic seizures.

Now I worked with pain management, developed an effective schedule of OxyContin and oxycodone for breakthrough pain, and clonazepam. I moved from Arizona to Georgia, have been off all narcotics, seen 2 of the best pain management doctors, and they will under no circumstances write me the drug "recipe" that worked for 20+ years...this even after a neurosurgeon did an MRI and refused any more surgery, or repeats in alternative pain management, he wrote I should be on my opiate structure for as long as the pain exsisted or until death, whichever comes first. Did the doctors afterward in GA read that? I dunno, they were too busy with the Michael Jackson/Whitney Houston/Heath Ledger stories of abuse, and now they will add Prince to this story.

Zero pain Meds. I asked the second doctor if he minded me looking for a doctor who will continue my treatment, he said sure, thr try are lots of pill pushers in Atlanta. I stood up and got mad, saying I was NOT a doctor shopper, but your are giving me no relief. I don't expect and never had, 100% relief, and I've been on it so long I don't get high. I want a tolerable pain level I can live with, a level 4-5.

The saddest thing is there are hundred of thousands of us who are being under treated it not treated at all. We are not being selfish, we are not junkies ( I WAS a police officer - do you think I like this?) we are people hurting because YOU, doctors and the public, have drawn a line with no thought of extenuating circumstances. This is causing a mass influx to the state of Colorado, ALOT of self-medication (alcohol, heroin, meth) the stance on tightening up the narcotic rules is causing an equal rise in self medication.

DOCTORS PLESE HEAR THIS: Not everyone in pain is in my position. Some are much less severely impacted. Some are more so. But at least a million of us are in agony, with no quality of life. Sure, bring in the psychiatrists now because you don't get the difference between quality I'd life and depression. I'm not depressed, I am grateful for every day, try to get the very BEST of every day, love my friends and family, have no cravings, so far have not self medicated, I excersize all that I can, but I have failed back surgery disorder, degenerative disk disease, stenosis, disc compression, vertabrae that are breaking apart, and DOCTORS, I AND MY FELLOW PEOPLE SUFFERING FROM INTRACTICAL PAIN AND DO NOT GET ANY RELIEF BECAUSE OF A WRONG PICTURE OF THIS PRACTICE NEED YOU TO THINK THIS OVER.

And don't forget, most of us are on Medicaew, and they do not pay for psychatrist, that is 100% out of pocket, and on a fixes income of $1500, what do I give up? Food? Housing? Tell me, please, I make too much for Medicaid, so what do I give up?.

Sandy K

Subject: Ignorant

I am so thoroughly disgusted and outrage at the holier-than-though attitude of doctors and nurses who think that they posses all the knowledge in the world about anything medical. I too worked in the medical field as a phlebotomist and lab tech and I can't tell you how many times I received phone calls to my lab by doctors and nurses asking me what tests to order for certain illnesses. Also, nine times out of ten, a patient would come in with a lab requisition with totally wrong tests ordered for the conditions they had. So don't act like you know everything, especially in regards to chronic pain. Unless you also suffer with sciatica, disc disease or anything related to back pain, keep your ignorant comments to yourself. And of all the totally ignorant comments ever said, "unless you are dying or recovering from cancer" tops them all!. You seriously are the most uneducated "nurse" I have ever come across, and I question that you are one. For one thing your spelling and grammar is atrocious for claiming to be a nurse. But that statement...well you should be fired for your lack of empathy and\or lack of education. I personally have friends and family members who have had cancer and gone through chemo and radiation. Yes, it was devastating and painful, but they all said it was not as painful as living with chronic pain that will more than likely never go away. I have over 12 chronic pain conditions, all were diagnosed by several amazing specialists. My problem is that I had no choice but to move away from them to a state filled with medical "professionals" such as yourself. My heart goes out to everyone here that has to suffer as I do due to the lack of empathy and the ignorance of the medical community. Doctors refuse to take the time to study and learn about chronic pain. So much research has been done and it has been found that chronic pain sufferers do not and cannot become addicts. It is not us that have become heroin or meth addicts on the streets killing for money to pay for their habits. The majority of us are law abiding people living in agony because of our doctors not willing to take the time to truly listen and learn. The problem is also the DEA threatening doctors by telling them they will lose their license if they prescribe pain meds. The government has no business being in the position of telling doctors how to run their practices! There has been a huge increase in suicide rates of chronic pain sufferers, and I won't lie and say that thought hasn't crossed my mind. It's a travesty how we are being treated, and I pray that something is done soon. The first being getting rid of ignorant nurses and doctors like yourself Karah!


Subject: 2 herniated disc with 19 degree curve in back

To nurse, it is obvious u are not one that has to deal with pain yourself , or having to deal with inadequate training of trying to get relief , I am a cardiac patient & can't take Motrin or Tylenol because of INR &PT Ratios , sounds like u label pain patients as drug addicts before u have even seen them, if u know something that would help me please let me know


Subject: Hypocritical Oath

After 60 years of living, most of it living in pain (even as as a child). Broken femurs, C4/5/6 fractures, ruptured appendix, pnumathorax, broken ribs etc. Many surgeries on Lumbar, Cervical, and at least ten on knees alone. I was recently asked to go for physclogical testing by neuro Doctor, The questions were? Did your father mistreat you? were you sexually molested., is your household functional? All B/S questions, I stated I was there because of PAIN " not MANIC BEHAVIOR. I was raised on a farm with loving parents & a childhood most kids would die for. If not for a terrible ACCIDENT @ nine years of age , I had "THE PERFECT CHILDHOOD". After 25 years in the Haz Mat trucking business, I am Now diagnosed with Parkinson's, the Neuropathy Pain is so painful that I ASKED if AMPUTATION was an option. Nerve conduction test show CHRONIC neuropathic disease, knee replacement is not possinle due to old surgeries. Numbness, burning, stabbing pain that never leaves ( especially at night ). Neurologist visit last week, after signing twenty forms related to pain. The "NURSE PRACTIONER" made me feel like a convicted FELON. My Primary Care Doctor is a kind, caring person, and has tried every thing possible. Lyrica, Opiates, Valium plus Parkinson meds make my life tolerable "NOT GOOD" . Physical Therapy, Injections, tens unit, massage, yoga are a few things that didn't help. I cannot believe YOU are a NURSE with an attitude that no cronic pain patient should be on Pain Meds. I would never wish this Neuro Pain on my worst Enemy, but I wouldn't mind if YOU had to deal with it ONE NIGHT. You are a HYPOCRITE by breaking the sacred OATH about pain and suffering.


Subject: Karah

You have no idea what you are talking about. You are lucky you don't have constant lower back pain. You don't deserve to be in the medical field. Dous all a favor and quit


Subject: Chronic Pain Management

Actual Karah, I am glad to read your post above. I am a retired soldier with injuries sustained during my service. I don't remember the 1st 5 yrs following my injuries as my Dr's pushed narcotics on me to combat the pain. I am happy to say that I had had enough, I live with a lot of pain - take NO NARCOTICS, and have a managed to build a great pain mgmt team of osteotherapist, chiropracter, physiotherapist, registered massage therapist, kinesiotherapist, psychiatrist, pharmacist, Family Doctor and Physiatrist. I believe that CP patients must take an active role in their treatment, and that is what I have done, Educating myself on every available treatment or alternative out there and also having a pain mgmt team that works TOGETHER AND WITH me to help me deal with my pain.


Subject: you are the problem not your patients

It is people like you in the profession of pain management that cause many of us to suffer. If you were the nurse at my doctor's office I would tomake a complaint to whoever is the head of your Medical Association.

william sanford

Subject: wrong career!

In sorry you have bad experiences with people in pain. It's not easy to deal with people that hurt physically and most are not cut out for it. Try not to label patients, it's demeaning to us.sciatica is very painful and often require more than alleve. You take the alleve and I'll take my pure opiate which is so dangerous I'm able to think clearly enough to respond to your absurdness. You offend me and probably your patients as well. Have some compassion and smile cause life's too short to be uncompassionate, insensitive, and omniscient. Yeah, look up that word . . . WJS Advcate for Proper prescribing


Subject: Chronic pain patients can't get help

I have lived with chronic pain for over 20 years. I had great doctors that worked with me to help control my pain. I just moved from Colorado to Missouri and cannot find any help. I do everything I can to manage my pain - yoga, massage, acupuncture, physical therapy and the list goes on. However, there are times when I need to take narcotic pain medicine. I know this is only a band-aid, that is why I do everything else. Now - the Government has once again gone too far. I can't find a doctor here that will prescribe a few pills a month to help when the pain gets unbearable. Why are the ones who need help the most being punished?


Subject: Sorry to disagree

Karah, I'm sorry you feel this way about those of us who suffer from degenerative disk disease, spinal stenosis, and similar conditions. I have had 3 discs replaced (ACDF in 2009 and in 2015). The pain and impact on my life have been debilitating, and I am not quite 50 years old. I would not wish this pain on anyone. I had natural (no meds at all) childbirth--some days, the upper back and shoulder/neck pain are far worse (and I had to fight tooth and nail because EVERYONE at the hospital shoved meds at me when I was in labor--an awesome L&D nurse was our savior and respected our wishes/choices. It makes me laugh that no one understands spinal pain, but is ready to dope you like crazy in labor). I would be HAPPY to get PT and/or nerve root or epidural injections. My ortho (who is a good surgeon) doesn't like those options--but he won't offer any other alternatives or a recommendation for a pain management specialist, so I feel helpless. We live in a rural area, with few doctors. The only person who has really tried her best to help is my PCP--lidocaine patches, Tramadol, and a muscle relaxant. That plus Tylenol and Aleve allow me to get through the day--most of the time. I also use a TENS unit and heat packs. I meditate. I walk 3-4 days a week, sometimes in tears because of the pain, but I do it because everyone has told me walking is so good for me. The pain has impacted my marriage. It has limited hobbies I once loved (knitting). Most days, the mornings are good, but by evening, my pain is usually around a 6 (Let's call childbirth a 7-8 and a kidney stone a 10). Those are "good days." On "bad days," I lose arm function and cannot do something as simple as cooking a basic meal. I've never asked for opioid medications, though I know from the one time I was prescribed Norco (for a severe, acute flareup), it helped. I took it exactly as prescribed. I did not abuse it. I think that surely there has to be a middle ground between quality pain management and making sure people are safe while taking these drugs. Alas, with posts like yours being an example, there is so much prejudice again people with back pain, it's hard for responsible patients to even broach the subject for fear of some kind of backlash and assumption...or worse.


Subject: submitted by Tony on Mon. 9/15/14

my wife has had pain more severe than you will ever know. Most of the pain came after Quad. bypass in 1990 she now suffers from Diabetes, Arthritis and a number of other pains brought on by the heart surgery so I was told. I have been married to my wife for 49 years and I see the pain she go's through every day. and I can tell you it is not fake or any of the other reasons you seem to think you know because you work with a doctor. I only wish you could suffer some of the pain she suffers but then I would be like you and think all people who take narcotics for pain are addicts. If I had my way people like you would be ran out of the nursing business. My wife was given a 10mg. prescription to be taken up to 4 times a day period and has never gone over. Some times I tell her to take the 4th one when she is hurting so bad she is crying. She has never taken more the prescribed or given or sold any. and I would not let that happen because she need them. I can't understand how some people think they know what pain is and who is faking pain to get pills. If you haven't walked in their shoes don't judge just because you work with or are a doctor. Thank you for letting me post a reply. Tony


Subject: The REAL truth about pain patients

I read your comment today and I am appauled. Let me tell YOU something about pain. I was a nurse. I say was because I lost the fight against chronic pain. I have had pain since I was a child. A CHILD of 7. They couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. That was 40 years ago. My arms would swell like popeye, and the pain in my legs was unbearable. The test were all inconclusive. Maybe Rhuematic fever, "we just don't know". Then the pain of endometriosis began. Not when I was in my 30's like all the literature stated...NO it hit me when I was 17. The pain from the endometriosis and the other unknown pain would have me crawling on my hands and knees to go to the bathroom. I worked thru it all. Took occasional narcotics and nsaids. The nsaids didn't help and it would be 30 years before I found out why. At 18 I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis in my hips, knees, shoulders, SI Joints and spine. I wasn't over weight, I didn't overuse my joints as osteo normally results from. So, I go thru life in chronic pain from many different pain causing issues. I get my nursing degree, work for 6 months in a wonderful facility. One night, I bent down to crank a bed up and my back stuck. I took me nearly 15 minutes to be able to straighten back up. after awhile, I start noticing that I am hurting everywhere. After 6 months of test after test, doctor after doctor i finally got the diagnosis of Fibromyalgia, Myofascial pain syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome, etc, etc etc. It was all I could do to walk from one room to another. I started taking narcotics. I NEVER took more then what I was allowed. Never gave it away, never sold it. Why you ask? Since in your so called experienced eyes that all pain patients are drug addicts, drug dealers and drug seekers. Because it worked. It allowed me to be able to get out of bed and be a minor participant in my family life. Could I work any more? No. the pain medication never allowed me to be pain free. Just managable. So that I could take care of my self and my children to the best of my ability. So now, back to my previous mention of why I found out why the nsaids didn't work. Medicare started asking patients for voluntary DNA testing to see if they were able to metabolize certain medications properly. This to be used as a tool for the physician when prescribing medications. I found out that I was a poor metabolizer for the nsaids which means that my body doesn't clear the medication out of my body fast enough. This explains why when I took celebrex, vioxx, bextra, and all the others that it constricted my renal arteries to the point that I began to swell with edema so bad that it caused more pressure and more pain. Oh, and physical therapy? After a couple sessions they refused to perform even passive therapy on me because my pain was too high and it would exacerbate the pain. Come to find out I have a condition called Dercums Disease. This is a condition where multiple lipomas grow and put pressure on the nerves causing ...yes....more pain. So now you have a glimse into a real chronic pain patient. A chronic pain patient who has to fight every day with pain you could never imagine. And now I have to fight to receive the one thing that works for ME...Pain medication. You don't deny a diabetic insulin even if you believe that their diabetes could be controlled by diet and exercise. You don't deny a cancer patient cancer medications because well, it may not be able to shrink the tumor enough. Medicine doesn't deny any other patient any medication that has been proven to improve their quality of life. Well, that was until recently when I was refused my pain medication because the pain management physician resigned with no replacement and there is a fear of the DEA knocking down the door of any physician that prescribes pain medication. So now none will prescribe it.
Look, I realize this is a huge reply, but I feel it is necessary that pain patients have a voice especially when people like you, and I use that work loosly, rant and rave about something that they have absolutely no clue about. Yes there are those that are addict looking for a fix or drugs to sell. But there are those of us and we are many, that suffer every day of our lives. Make that every MINUTE of our lives in misery. And we deserve to be treated as human beings. Not abandoned by our physicians of 30 years because of fear.

And as for your attitude....you are either not who you say you are because if you were really a nurse you would know from your education that pain is the #1 most undertreated and under recognized disease. And yes it is a disease. And as nurses it is our duty to the patient to make sure that pain is recognized and treated appropriately. If you truly are a nurse then you most definately have nurse burnout and it is time to find another job.

vincent mcelroy

Subject: pain management

If I were you I would choose another line of work! I've been a surgical P.A. for thirty years and your attitude towards pain patients is unacceptable!I've had two failed fusions and I can tell you first hand that you have no clue ! I'm seriously doubting
No one bothered to read my occupation on the chart. I had legitimate pain and knew which medications that I could take or which didn't work. Your labeling of patients as pill seekers will come back on you one day when you are defending yourself
to the nursing board. you will not have your license very long after that! And you can be sued for slanderous remarks!
And H.IP.P.A. violations!


Subject: I read your comment today and

I read your comment today and I don't think you have the right to talk about pain patients the way you do. My husband has had chronic back and leg pain for years due to an accident. His primary care physician and the physician that gave him his injections told him that he would always have to be on some form of pain medication so not everybody that deals with pain is a junkie. That might not be what you are saying but it sure sounds like it. If you don't go through the pain day after day you don't know what it is like and don't tell me you do just because you work in the field. You need to better at listening to patients about how they feel instead of telling them how they feel. How would you like to ho to the doctor with an ailment and have them tell you no I don't think you feel that way. The saying goes treat others as you want to be treated. It seems to me that you go to work everyday just to get a paycheck. Why don't you try going to work with a caring attitude and care for your patients instead of saying I guess I have to go in today so I can get a paycheck. It is very sad to have doctors or nurses like you.


Subject: Pain and scared

I live in a small town in Idaho, previously Seattle. I too have Fibromyalgia and osteoarthritis as well as 3 neck surgeries from a camper explosion. Both knees have torn meniscus and the pain is getting worse. I have been on pain meds since 1995, same dose and nothing else seems to help me through each day.
I took part in a fibromyalgia pain study at the University of Washington (1 year) tried exercising and biofeedback and the tens machine. I do go to a water therapy, the pool is very warm and has a treadmill machine in it; it allows me to exercise without hurting myself. Nothing works, just the opioids...consistently. I've been to 3 orthopedics trying to get help for arthritis and all they notice is I am on drugs. At that point they right me off. Amazingly in order for me to get a GP in this small town I finally decided to write a resume so she could see how hard I worked. I own my own business and deal with dealers and distributors. I could not deal with my business without the help of the drugs. She did accept me as a patient but will not fill my opioids. I saw a Rheumatologist (2) and they would not continue with my long standing Seattle Drs. plan, sadly he recently retired. He did recommend 3 doctors in the same clinic (large clinic) and I picked one. This doctor did not read my history and so he too decided I was a drug seeker; if he took the time to read my history he would know I was a model patient and did what my Rheumatologist asked. After seeing him several times he realized that I was not a drug seeker. I have to go 6 hours away to Seattle quarterly and he prescribes what I need.
All the doctors are so scared to take pain patience because they are scrutinized closely and must fill out reams of paper work for each patient. Their practices are on the line for us because of the government and those who don't know anything about pain and what works for us. I wish all these doctors could walk in our shoes for a month and see how they deal with the pain. I know that people with FM usually are depressed but I have never been, thank god. Oh, I am a 68 years old women and have been in pain since the mid 90's; FM runs in my family. Sorry for the long post....I am scared and mad, I don't see any light at the end of this tunnel do you? We need to ban together. I don't see any blog about Drs. in my area, I wish there were so we could let people know about the Drs. who are unwilling to do their job...I do feel sorry for them but sorrier for us. If we could let the world know through blogs (an be fair and not wine and complain but just tell others what to expect) I know I would feel like I was doing something to help all of us.

lesley turnbull

Subject: Pain management

I agree with these people and think it is downright shameful the way people in pain are treated nowadays. I am and have been mad for years at the way we are treated and dismissed after a new doctor knows we must take opioids just to maintain a semi pain free existence. After relocating from the D.C. area to rural Virginia I have been turned away by a half a dozen drs with a simple "we don't prescribe pain meds". Well It isn't that simple. Who does then? I have been on them for about a dozen years and the pain is never going to go away. Surgery is not an option, had one, although it allowed me to walk again it did nothing to ease my pain of 9 ruptured discs not to mention trauma site osteoarthritis and a fibromyalgia. I was told by my pain management dr that I would only get worse from these degenerative issues and that I would be on pain meds for life. ok, fine. I have adjusted to that fact but now thanks to the government interference everyone who needs pain meds is treated by medical professionals like junkies or people who have post surgical pain med addiction issues (not the same thing at all). Yes, we are addicted but it is a small price to pay to live your life out of bed as long as we can be treated with respect and compassion. But we are also in big trouble if we need to move out of town or our doctor retires. The government and the media have no business interfering with medical decisions and medical professionals unfamiliar with chronic permanent pain problems have no business passing judgment on us or our previous doctors. Neither are being irresponsible. We are just trying to survive with our daily chronic pain the only way we can and to keep a roof over our head and food in our bellies since most of us can no longer work and have lost everything. Please leave us our self respect by not making us beg for medications that were designed for the very purpose for which we intend to use them. Is it morally right that we should live in constant fear of not being able to get our medications? Or that we will have to face both pain and withdrawal if we either have no money or cannot travel the insane distances that have become necessary to get to the few Doctors that are not afraid to prescribe the meds we need. The whole issue has become insane. We cannot get medicine that was available over the counter in one form or another until just the last half of the last century.

Lisa Johnson

Subject: Pain mgmt

I have been in chronic pain since I broke my leg in 1991 and developed fibromyalgia. I was not diagnosed until 1997. My pain is never ending but is managed with Percocet and muscle relaxers. I also see a psychiatrist for the depression. My current pain doctor also gives cortisone shots and synvisc shots every six months. i also recieve shots in my back for digenaritve discs. I have been told if I do not have these injections they will not fill my prescription. I feel like I'm being black mailed. The prescription is the only thing that helps. I am treated like a drug seeker and its humiliating.

sylvia sittner

Subject: chronic pain

I suffer from chronic pain and I am practicing a personal wellness program based on the education and training I have received from three physical therapists and a program that dealt with the pain from a multidisciplinary approach. I resigned from my job in FL three years ago and returned to the city where I grew up so that I could move closer to the teaching and research hospital near family. I can't condense all that I have gone through over the last few years in attacking this life-altering condition in this short time. I can only say that once all the tests were completed, all the results were in, I realized that if I didn't see a pain management specialist, I would be like so many - dealing with docs who don't want to prescribe pain medication. Through the 10 week [one day a week] multidisciplinary program, I learned how to address my pain medically, psychologically, socially, and physically. I am so blessed that this program also has begun "booster" [that's what I call them] programs wherein you participate over three weeks in a "booster" for your personal pain management plans; address unmet needs, review previously taught techniques, examine psycho-social welfare, assess prior goals, regain and retrain lost methods and make changes where needed based on any new health/pain issues. Fitness is a HUGE factor - but not only physical fitness - psychological fitness MUST be addressed. The brain is the part of the body that tells the self it has pain and interprets the pain. The brain is also the part of the body that contains personality, temperament, mood, etc. EVERYONE'S pain is different because each person perceives it differently. My recommendation is search for pain management programs like I have described even if you have to travel to them. In my case, they have affected my quality of life tremendously and inspired me so dramatically that I am presently seeking a degree in psychology with an emphasis in pain management. God bless you.


Subject: pain manangement

that may work for you but may nto for someone else some people just need their bloody morphine. its all a scam. they are paranoid of the dea these docs

Sharon Bass MD

Subject: Chronic pain and the State Board

Not only do I have chronic pain in the form of arthralgias, neuropathy and migraines caused by cryoglobulinemia, I treat chronic pain. No, I'm not a neurologist, anesthesiologist or physiatrist. I am a residency trained, board certified Family Medicine SPECIALIST! The biggest obstacle to my mind is a narcophobic state board. I am very careful to follow the state boards regulations, including writing what they want in the chart, having contracts and drug screens and doing prescription monitoring through our state program. I have pretty much weeded out the drug seekers and I spend the time talking to my patients. I don't do any interventional stuff except trigger point injections. If I think something interventional might help I refer out but they come back to me. I have had patients crying just because I listen to them and don't treat them like junkies and it makes me angry that any physician would do otherwise. Chronic pain is just that, CHRONIC! Would a doctor cut someone off of their diabetes, blood pressure or heart medications because "they've been on it long enough"? I don't think so. When I send patients to a counselor I tell them the pain didn't start in their head but it got there, too. I hand out yoga DVDs because you can start that from your bed if you can't get up and down from the floor yet. I am the only doctor for 30 miles who treats chronic pain and I don't get many drug seekers because a new pain patient has a print out from the prescription monitoring program on their chart before I get to the room. Do I get compensated fairly? Hell no! My compensation is excellent care of my patients. All of them.

Dorothy Cullen

Subject: pain management

I read your article and certain things you stated is exactly what i go threw. I have had 3 back surgeries, 2 were spinal fusions. Ive been told that i have failed back syndrome, i have nerve damage in my legs and my upper back down my left arm. I also have neuropathy pain, arthritis throughout my back, and several other problems. I have been going threw this since 1998, and my doctor that i was seeing for almost nine years retired. It has been down hill for me since then. There are some days the pain is so bad i can barely walk even with the cane i use. I have been treated horribly by several doctors that don't want to continue the medication ive been on for years. Ive recently had a doctor stop giving me my medication with no suggestions of where to go or what to do. Im tired of being treated like a drug seeker when all i want is to try to function as best as i can and not be in unbearable pain everyday. I was just recently declared disabled and unable to work due to the multiple back problems i have. I would like to find a doctor that would listen and help me manage my pain and not be dismissed. I liv e in new york and can not seem to find a doctor willing to helpme. I don't know what to do or where to turn. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Subject: Chronic Pain

I would do anything to have a doctor that listened to the patient and cared about what was best for the patient. I remember when I was little, doctors used t spend an hour with me. Now I have to beg and plead for more than 5 minutes of a doctor's time. How can you properly treat a patient if you don't talk to them? I'm so tired of living with chronic pain. I would do anything to be pain free. Thank you for being a caring doctor. Gives me hope of finding one here in Northern California

deborah dollard

Subject: chronic pain

I would give anything to have a kind, caring doctor like you that listened to me!!

Jon Yarbrough

Subject: chronic pain from septoplasty nerve damage

in 2003 after 3 ear nose throat speacialists said i need a septoplasty for allergy relief cause of a deviated septum i had the surgery done. the moment i awoke from the surgery I was in Excruciating Pain in the septum area. the nurse gave me Dilaudid once, then again then she said no more despite the overwellming pain. so i see dr. and tell him it hurts like hell & he says it will heel soon. 1 week goes by & no relief at all ! so he gives me a script 4 Roxicet & says i need 2 see my G.P. Dr. for the pain. so the meds run out & three weeks later my app. day is finally here with my G.A. I tell him what happened & he's sympathetic & helps me by a script for Oxycontin. 5 years later he says he can't help me anymore! WTF!!!!!!!!!!! I'm still suffering with painful surgical nerve damage they call T.A. Trigenemal Nueralgia but all the nerve meds iv'e taken over the years don't help at all only the narcotic meds give me enough reliefe 2 live my life... I need real help PLEASE !!!



Does anyone have any experience with ozone injection therapy for the treatment of chronic back pain?

Janet Dunaway


What I have found over many years of chronic pain, and after many injections and three cervical spine surgeries, is that doctors are afraid of the DEA and will not prescribe pain medications, at least for long term use. Even my Neurosugeons would not. The Pain Management doctor that had given me the injections became the ONLY doctor that would help me with meds. This is after seeing at least a dozen doctors, like Neurologists nad family practice, Neurosurgery, etc. Even my long time Primary care doctor will not prescribe them. I take Lyrica, MS Contin,and Cymbalta regularly, and Hydrocodone, as needed. I have a life now, and am sure if I had not found help I would have killed myself due to the unbearable pain. Thank goodness there are some doctors who understand. But it is very unfair for them to take all the risks. I have to see my doctor monthly, have tests for levels of drugs in by system every six months. He really has to cover his ass and I know he resents the way the other doctors have turned their backs on patients. He has told me so. And I also know he is taking a risk and is scared of the DEA too. It's such a shame that our government, which is supposed to be "by the people, for the people singles out pain management doctors. Ironically, the other doctors, who are too afraid to prescribe, aren't even being monitored. Shame on them.



I've been a lower back pain patient since 2008. It started as a random spasm that lasted for only a week and was treated with ati-inflammatories, valium, and massage. since then I've had on and off pain with a massive increase in the last years. In that time I've become intolerant to NSAIDs and Tylenol. I've tried the few random non-narcotic medications, I've had local anesthetic and steroid injections, and I had a radiorequency nerve ablation that left me in the hospital for days w/ an epidural for pain control. In the last 3 months I've had 6 ER visits and one overnight hospitalization for pain management. I've done CBT, Acupuncture, PT, massage thereapy,hypnotheraphy...everything my pain guy and I could think of. He is out of ideas. I'm on heavy narcotics that make percocet look like candy and muscle relaxers that are part of an anesthetic protocol in animals. I'm now trying to get into the Rosomoff Center in Miami which is an intensive pain management hospital that does medical management, interventional treatments, and all the various other modalities including psychotherapy. I'm at the point where it is my last hope, I don't know where to go after this.



Dr Fine- is of course misguided in suggesting people not receiving adequate pain care. It would be better for government all doctors to have education in pain care and to meet an adequate standard of care. The European Union now requires such. And Dr Fine- and other doctors should approach states and the federal government to require all doctors to have education in pain care -so that people in pain-who have enough to deal with shouldnt be forced to go doctor dancing to obtain adequate pain care. Until medicine takes people in pai seriously it is unlikely we will see progress in pain care anytime soon-and more and more will unfortunately not just suffer from poor pain care-and thats the sad truth

Kathy G.


Great article! I've been suffering with Chronic back pain for years and have been on many pain medications. Pain has been very depressing for me and has affected my once active lifestyle. I've never heard of the natural product that they mentioned, but will definetley looking that one up. It's hard to work as a nurse when on pain medication and try to concentrate on your work and not your uncontrolled pain.



Nopalea is marketed as a natural pain reliever that also reduces swelling in joints and muscles, but anybody who makes these claims is LYING! Nopalea is marketed as being a miracle drink that solves almost every problem and those types of products that seem too good to be true ARE too good to be true. There are no scientific studies or medical reviews that show that Nopalea does anything to improve your help. We know that Nopalea is good for you, but that's no different than saying that grapes are good for you, and you don't see people advertising grapes as a miracle cure! In the end it's a marketing ploy where people make up a bunch of health benefits to try to sell you a product. In this case this is especially obvious because Nopalea is being sold as a MLM product, which means that the people at the top are making tons of money off the people below trying to sell a product that doesn't work.

Nopalea is probably reasonably healthy for you, but it doesn't do anything like what is being advertises. It doesn't prevent joint and muscle pain, it doesn't 'detoxify' you (there really is no such thing), and it doesn't do anything major to improve your fatigue. Don't get scammed into believing that Nopalea is a miracle drink and don't fall for the MLM aspect of Nopalea either, it just is not worth it, so you should definitely avoid them. If you talk to your doctor and mention Nopalea they are not going to recommend it, and probably haven't heard of it, because it's the equivalent of selling snake oil. If you truly do have problems that Nopalea 'pretends' to cure, ask your doctor for suggestions!

Iwanna Scream

Subject: Carpet Baggers sell such cure-alls

Reminiscent of the snake oils depicted on some of the Old West themed movies . like The Outlaw Josey Wales

Marcella Respini


I have chronic pain since 2003 and rely on stong opiates to feel half-way normal and get through the day; however, cudos to Robert H. /George. I also have been on Nopalea and would never have believed anything like that could help but I am getting some relief after three weeks and will be ordering more; however, we don't get validation and this Dr. Oz show was very helpful to not feel alone and please take time to watch...only suffer through some commercials. These four excerpts from Sept 28th show are not more than 5 minutes each....He said there are 160 million suffering with this very misunderstood condition.
New discoveries in the field of pain management suggest that chronic pain is an actual disease. Dr. Oz explores why doctors dismiss patients with pain and what you can do to get relief.





Mona Potter


I've been struggling with chronic back pain since failed spinal fusion surgery seven years ago. I'm luck to have found good physicians, but am also intolerant to opiates and have been unable to take anything except minimal dosages. Even so I've been treated like a criminal when trying to fill prescriptions, and one doctor expelled me from her practice when I needed a prescription refill and my pain specialist was out of town. Only recently have medications become available that combine pain relievers with anti-nausea medications, enabling me to finally take enough medication to get pain relief. A great deal of research is needed to develop new pain drugs, and much public education in the medical community to teach that people in pain are human beings experiencing genuine suffering, not drug-seeking addicts! Thank you again for featuring this subject in your magazine.

Geoff Fisher


John Ware makes a good point, the heavy bias that threads the needle of understanding towards Chronic pain, as evidenced by the article above, often fails to include the very professionals who stand in the best position to make a powerful difference to that pain. I speak here of Physiotherapists ( Physical therapists ). Extensive research , common sense effective therapy and the ideals of "do no harm" make PT's an ideal resource for those suffering chronic pain. New developments in the understanding of pain physiology and treatment, made possible and indeed led by providers of manual therapy, have opened the door to ways to view chronic pain, that often does not fit the models taught to and constructed by medical practitioners.Doctors of medicine spend inordinate amounts of time in a usually vain search after peripheral drivers of the pain experience. A more brain/neurophsiological/central processing POV is often more successful, while reducing reliance on drugs, surgery and the potential for sufferers to be lured by quackery.

Karen Razim


There are many types of injuries that can give you inflammation and swelling. This is an area the doctors receive an F on, in my case.
During a cardiac ablation Don Phom accidentally burned a hole in my heart, in an emergent effort to save me life he accidentally stabbed me in the lung. Trying to remove the fluid from my pericardial sack. At that time, an infection set in. I was alergic to sulpher, so that only left prednizone. Totally ineffective. Pain took over my life. Pain patches and pain meds were given and were just destroying my life. I finally decided I had to get off or die, even if my blood pressure exploded completely, which it was doing anyway.
That's when I found a good, licensed homeopath, after treatment with pharmacopia from Hahnemann Labs, a new pysical therapy from Australia called Bowen, plus calendula oil taken iternally, and a regimen of careful nutrition, what finally bought my pain to a controllable level (also my nose ran like a water fountain, it was painful and beyond embarrasing; all allergy treatments failed and caused side effect, peeling skin etc.) I found GIA wellness products. The preventive products and finally the soothing water, taken internally and sprayed externally for the burn that's like a burning ember in the back of my chest. I now have a manageable life, I was able to work again, at least when there were jobs available. Unfortunately I am now in my 50's and it is very hard to get a job. That now, is my largest problem. I have lost alot to the health care system, mostly I felt humiliated and more hurt by the treatment I received. The medical system has a lot to answer for. I find it unbelievable the the past administration gave them an easy out, quite often they deserve to be sued, even though I was to sick to sue them for the longest time, the average person just pays and pays and if you complain to much, they will hang a label on you so no one will ever listen to you again. They can and will take over your life!



I am Marley Tarlton from Lake City,Fl,I am a patient of the Dr. Charlar Nach (wasn't even a doctor) he messed my back up so bad that I have have a total of 5 back surguries and still in pain.The state toke his licwnses,but a little to late,when he had alreay messed up 97 people around here,and 26 down in Clearwater,Fl.I live with back,neck,shoulders,and wrist pain everyday of my life,and the dpctors here think you don't need anything...I WISH THEY WERE IN MY SHORS....THANKS

Christy Cannon


Thank You for that message and information. I will look into this anti-inflamatory natural plant! Thank You! Have a B lest Day!

Christy Cannon


I was reading an artical on Angie's list and thought how great it would be if we all tolde our insurance companies about helping us pay for exercise facilities such as spectrum Gold's ect. Insead of all of there highly addictive drugs. Not saying there not needed as we all know if you have surgery as I have, but these insurance companies should alsopay for health clubs to help us maintain our health instead of killing us with drugs were using daily. The only way this country can make a change inn that area is what Mr. Bob Marley sang Stand Up For Your Rights. I do believe his message was to mankind!!!! Not the money hungry insurance compamies all over this world! Why is the USA always enveloped in try to help other countries if we are so looked at with such hated by so many were trying to help!! This ism the same thing these US Pharmaceutical Co. are doing to the people of the USA with there money hungry ways . They are no better.

Kory Zimney


IOM's report may be the best thing to come from Obama's Health Care Reform-Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. The four main findings point to problems we have in our current health care system: we need to make a transformation and see chronic pain as a public health challange, care for people in pain is currently inadequate, educational challenges exist along with research challenges that need addressed to improve our current level of understanding and care. Hopefully this report will help start to move the needle on the importance of better care for patients in pain. Interesting perspective we need to consider as a society: 18.6 million people have had a cancer diagnosis currently, 116 million people are burdened by chronic pain. Where do we spend more money on cancer or chronic pain? If you had a neighbor with cancer or chronic pain, which one would you more likely help rake their leaves this fall?


Subject: Leaves

I would rake everybody,s leaves and I would bring people to help with everything.



I too moved to Florida and find doctors here are paranoid about prescribing any type of narcotic for pain relief. I have been totally disabled by trigeminal neuralgia. I was treated I Pennsylvania with Percaset the best pain reliever I have used. I never abused it taking itnon an "as needed" basis. The doctors in Florida have been trying a variety of painful cortisone injections and central nervous system suppressants that cause many side effects. Those of us who are clearly not abusing drugs should be given the best pain control possible. Because of those who have given these drugs a bad reputation, we are denied the treatment we so badly need. Trigeminal Neuralgia is not a joke. The nerve suppressants were created for the treatment of epilepsy and have serious, unnecessary dysfunction than a simple pain reliever.

Florida is the worst state for illegal drug trafficking resulting in doctors withholding drugs from the most needy. In nearly two years I have not found a doctor who will write a prescription for Percaset. I continue to try these awful seizure medications on higher and higher doses that seem far more dangerous than an occasional pill when needed.

The medical community, the government law enforcement, and general public needs to recognize that there are people who need these drugs and who do NOT use them them recreationally!

Thomas Ireland


A good article overall and I can relate to it. My wife and I both suffer from chronic pain. We are both healthcare professionals as well. I had my had closed in a door while at work on the ambulance and had it folded back. My wife is a RN and had a patient break her neck and have to have several dics replaced. We are both in pain daily but we both continue on with our lives. I do not take any medications, I have learned to live with it with the Lords help. My wife though continues to be in alot of pain though and has to have meds for it. Like one of the others though, they treat her like she is a drug seeker. My wife would rather be out of pain than take anything. The doctors dont listen and I think that is the main thing.

wes m


I am a pain patient and finding a trustworthy doctor is so difficult, but not impossible. The problem, which you might have to be a patien to really understand, is that some doctors end up with every junkie in town trying to game them out of ever more drugs. If you end up in one of those practices (easily picked out by looking at the other patients in the waiting room) there's a good chance they are going to treat you like a junkie.

Also, one of the biggest problems facing pain patients is one not mentioned here - sleep. Pain and its attendant meds wreck your sleep.

As to the article - it's one of the best I've read. I wish it had been in the New York Times where more people would have read it.

Garrett Moffitt


1/3 of americans suffer from chronic pain? IS there any actual data to back that up? besides peopel who make money spouting the figure and selling the quackery de' jour?


Subject: chronic pain

the Quackery is about ridiculous....read this book, read that book, do some yoga, hug a tree ,get this all natural stuff,get that holistic stuff, go see this head doctor that head doctor ....some of you quacks ever consider the pain is real??.....almost sounds as hypocritical as blaming doctors for doing this or that ...coukd it be that what works for one person doesnt work for another because not everyone is the same ...i've had four back operations i have degenerative disc disease and bursitis in my hips....I'm not having any more surgeries I'm tired of it ....what works for me is and gets me through my days and nights so i can provide for my family is some stretching and a monthly prescription for lortab...but the stigma and looks people get for that sickens me

John Ware


Your article has a decidedly medical bias to it for the treatment of chronic pain, but it skirts the issue of how poor medical management of persistent pain problems has been over the last several decades. Much of the problem lies in an inadequate biomedical model for treating disease, and this model has led to tremendous expenditures on interventional procedures and surgeries that have resulted in very little if any improvement in patient’s long term pain. In many instances, such as certain spinal surgeries, the costs are astronomical and patients end up permanently maimed.
Dr. Fishman’s comment about physicians not knowing their anatomy well enough to treat the “cause” of pain exemplifies the profound misunderstanding many physicians have regarding how chronic/persistent pain actually works. The vain search for a peripheral cause- or as many interventionalists will refer to as a “pain generator”- has not resulted in improved outcomes for patients with chronic pain problems. Notwithstanding the “poor” reimbursement for radiofrequency ablations, a procedure directed towards a specific “pain generator” usually in a spinal joint, these procedures and many other interventional procedures continue to be performed daily despite the lack of significant improvement in long term outcomes for patients.
Fortunately, Dr. Carr from Tufts mentioned alluded to the biopsychosocial nature of the lived pain experience, and that most physicians do not know how to address the whole person’s lived experience of pain. Until medical and other health professional schools decide to broaden the paradigm to include a more accurate model that includes current neurobiology and neurophysiology of pain, then we will continue to see costs for chronic pain conditions skyrocket while patients continue to suffer.


Subject: Thank you

John, you must be in the medical field, you have a real understanding of our pain not matter where it is. I've been through many of the treatments you mentioned. I posted 9/18/13 and explain about my case. I know that doctors can now see the pain in scans and they are learning about nerve endings and more. Too late for me I think. Pain patience need to get together in some way to make a difference by getting the "pain" word out. Thanks for your post.

Jackie P.


I spent years trying to get my back pain (not an ache, but an absolute bonfire in my backside after an ergonomic nightmare at my desk, that I was not allowed to alter. It took me five minutes to figure out it met all the features of an annular tear, but MRIs were normal, and my injury denied. Finally went to Dr. Jamrich at Rocky Mountain Spine, and begged for a discogram (also denied by my employer, happy with the normal MRI, all-in-your-head" diagnosis. Discogram and CT showed annular tears at T8/9 and T10/11. Ditto for a car accident four years later, that put me back in agony in the lumbar region this time, again the exact symptoms of annular tears which allow the spinal fluid to leak out and travel down the nerve endings into your posterior and hips, and then feel like you've been torched with gasoline. Drs. in Billings, MT, refused discogram, and again had several MRIs, all normal. A female neurologist asked if I would take Class III narcotics. I said no. She demanded a drug test. I asked, "Do you KNOW a lot of drug addicts who would refuse an offer of narcotics?" I worked with a disabled lady, and needed my brain intact. Denver Pain Management--Drs. Brandt, Wright and Allen. My heros with SNRB injections for my back, & radioradiofrequency rhizotomy for the sciatica. At least some relief. Since I was uninsurable 10 years before Medicare, Drs. accepted half for immediate payment on a credit card.

Robert H. George Jr.


Many great results are being experienced with a natural product called Nopalea.

Robert H. George Jr.


This article failed to mention a remarkable natural product that has benefitted my wife and myself with chronic pain. This product is Nopalea and is provided by the 12 year old company Trivita which has been in business since 1999. The active igredients in Nopalea are the betalains contained in the Sonoran dessert. There have been over 200 scientific papers done on the anti-inflamatory properties of these betalains. This product is helping 1000s all over the world and can be found at the following website: http://www.trivita.com/Web/US/content/products/product-detail.aspx?id=3918

Jodi Galanis


I recommend anyone who is suffering from chronic pain read The Divided Mind by Dr. John Sarno. It changed my life. There is a reason all the treatments for chronic pain rarely work. The diagnosis is incorrect. I had a herniated disc and was in the worst pain I had ever felt for three long years. After physical therapy, spinal injections, tens, you name it, I finally decided to have surgery. That failed too. That's when I decided to do some research on my own. I found Dr. Sarno's book, Healing Back Pain and finally began my recovery. I recommend this book as well. The Divided Mind is his most recent work, however. If this helps even one person, this message was worth my time.

Theron Hunt


I have spent years having my degenerative disc diagnosed and managing the pain. This article is another verification of what we face. Thank you!

E. Griffin


As chronic pain patient I found it difficult to get the psychological help necessary to aid in the transition after my accident. In speaking to many other chronic pain patients I found this to be a much neglected area of pain management. The transition from "healthy" to chronic pain, no matter the cause, is a difficult one to make and the lack of professional understanding makes it more so. The medical and and mental health professions need to work hand in hand in order to fully treat those with chronic pain as well as the family members and caregivers of chronic pain sufferers. No one professional is qualified to treat every aspect of this difficult condition.

Dr Sheryl Roe


Great article but I'm disappointed you did not include acupuncture in it at all

Dr. Paul Christo


I very much enjoyed this article that highlights the epidemic of chronic pain. I host the first radio show on pain and pain relief called, Aches ang Gains. It's been a valuable resource for many by featuring topics, guests, and experts that can help overcome pain.

I’m a pain specialist at The Johns Hopkins Hospital and I’m hosting the first radio show on the topic of pain and pain relief, called Aches and Gains (WBAL Radio-NBC Affiliate, owned by Hearst (www.WBAL.com/shows/achesandgains/).

Pain has reached epidemic proportions. Recent data from the Institute of Medicine estimate that over 100 million people suffer from uncontrolled pain, almost a third of the US population. The problem is real and can transform one’s life terribly. However, there is hope and there are treatments.

My show provides hope for those suffering from pain through interviews with patients, specialists, authors, and celebrities who have conquered their pain.

Some of my guests have included Ice Skating Legend, Peggy Fleming; Country Music Star, Clay Walker; 6 time Grammy Award Winner and spokesperson for Partners Against Pain, Naomi Judd; Talk Show Host, Montel Williams; Ravens Defensive End, Michael McCreary; Chris Kennedy Lawford ,Nephew of President Kennedy; and Actress AJ Langer from My So Called Life and Seinfeld.

I've received positive feedback about the show and want to make the membership of Angie's list aware of this resource.

Kate Trudo


I thought your article on chronic pain was well done. As a healthcare professional, I understand the viewpoint of the patient as well. It is very hard to find good pain doctors, as well as any specialty. I travel 4 hours to my previous pain doc because he is that good. On the other side, though, the reimbursement rates that are being paid to these doctors is pitiful. It does not attract potential doctors. Unfortunately the insurance industry would rather pay for narcotics than procedures. Radiofrequency Nerve Ablations are an example of a procedure with a significant potential to provide relief to many patients but the insurance companies ofter deny to pay for this.
Truly good doctors provide excellent care to their patients regardless of what they are being paid for it. They seem to be only at best 25% of all doctors. The rest are strongly influenced by the reimbursement and develop very bad attitudes as a result and often take it out on patients by either not paying attention of lack of patience.

Lisa Ivens


Very informative article. Wish some inquiry by the author would be done and noted in a subsequent article after concurring with the American Bodywork and Massage Professionals regarding massage therapy modalities for pain management.

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I second the original question (still unanswered). Speaking as someone who logged in today to try to find an attorney, I see this category as one that's exactly what I have my Angie's List membership for:

1. It's important that I find a good one
2. I'm not an expert enough to know myself who is a good one
3. The industry is full of advertisements and misinformation
4. I wish I knew what experiences other people have had

I don't care about lawns--I planted mine in clover and don't have to mow it. When I do need to mow I use a rotary Fiskars mower, which is great--or a scythe. That's right--a scythe (the European type, which is smaller, and it's very good exercise). Gas-powered mowers, chemical fertilizers and weed killers--all nasty stuff that gets into everyone's air, soil, and water. I'm sure my neighbor doesn't like my wildflowers, semi-wild pockets of fruit bushes, and unmown areas and yes, dandelions (I have 10 acres) but that's too bad. It's better habitat for wildlife, especially the pollinators on which our food supply depends. I think this obsession with the Great American Lawn is a waste of time and resources. Plant some food instead.

I'm not sure Angie et. al. want you to have a complete answer to this question. By re-subscribing at the Indiana State Fair in 2012, I think I paid $20.00 per year for a multi- year subscription. Maybe even less. At the other extreme--and I hope my memory isn't faulty about this--I think the price, for my area, for ONE year was an outrageous $70.00. And they debited me automatically without warning. I had to opt out of that automatic charge. I like Angie's List, but if some of the companies they monitor behaved the way they do in this respect, they'd be on some sort of Pages of Unhappiness. I'll be interested to see if this comment gets published or censored out of existence.

That's very difficult to answer without seeing the house. As one poster said, the prep is the most important part. On newer homes that don't have a lot of peeling paint, the prep can be very minimal even as low as a couple or a few hundred dollars for the prep labor.

On a 100 year old home with 12 coats of peeling paint on it, then the prep costs can be very high and can easily exceed 50% of the job's labor cost.

A 2100 sq ft two story home could easily cost $1000 just for the labor to prep for the paint job. That number could climb too. Throw in lots of caullking  or window glazing, and you could be talking a couple or a few hundred dollars more for labor.

Painting that home with one coat of paint and a different color on the trim could run roughly $1000 or more just for labor. Add a second coat  and that could cost close to another $1000 for labor.

For paint, you may need 20 gallons of paint. You can pay from $30-$70 for a gallon of good quality exterior paint. The manufacturer of the paint should be specified in any painting contract. Otherwise, the contractor could bid at a Sherwin-Williams $60 per gallon paint and then paint the house with $35 Valspar and pocket the difference. $25 dollars per gallon times 20 gallons? That's a pretty penny too.

That was the long answer to your question. The short answer is $2000 to $4000 and up, depending upon the amount of prep, the number of coats, the amount of trim, and the paint used.