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Keota Lumber Stores

in Keota, OK

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D
"12/3/14 Narrative of events occurring while having
renovate kitchen. January to March 2014 discussions started with
" kitchen designer about a complete renovation of our kitchen. In April decisions were made on the kitchen cabinets and the layout wanted. This was with Project Specialist
and layout performed by
. On April 29th, an order was placed for the cabinets and $ 648.00 for tear out of old cabinets and $1567.00 on Invoice 29799596 for installation of new cabinets. About the same time,
informed us that she was leaving
and that instead of her doing the contracting for each item needing labor, she was turning the entire project to a turnkey contractor, Reliabuilt. In June 2013 we were informed that the cabinets were ready for shipment and that we needed to pay more detailed amount for labor before the installation could be scheduled. So on 6/24/2012 we paid another Invoice 29642398 of $3949.84 for a detailed listing of labor charges. Another Project Specialist
informed us that she was taking over our project and the scheduled date for installation would be in
, but that the shipping company could not hold the cabinets any longer so they were delivered on
21. We then tried to get a firm install date from
but had trouble reaching her. Finally on the week of August 11, a representative of Reliabuilt (the contract company) came with
to inspect the cabinets. He left saying there was a problem but would not elaborate.
said that she would call the next day. After a week with no call from her and not returning our phone messages for her to call us, she did contact us on August 20th that Reliabuilt would not do our job because the layout was not correct and that the number of cabinets delivered did not match the design. She said that she would start scheduling individual contractors to perform the installation and other work. She said then that they would “rework” the labor charges and that we would be getting a refund for the difference.
said that the individual installer had the design and we would be contacted to schedule the installation. Between August 21 and August 27, we made 5 phone calls to get an update and none of the calls were returned after we left messages to call us. On August 27, we were informed that “they” were still working on the design and that
(regional account person) would call us later that day. There was no call until the first week in September to let us know that installation would begin September 8th. The cabinets had been in un-air conditioned storage since June 6th (at
shipping terminal and our garage). We were given assurance by
’s that not being in the house to acclimate would not be a problem despite warnings from the cabinet maker. Finally the cabinets were installed September 8 – 15. There was one base cabinet, several trim pieces and several rollout drawers for cabinets. (A refund of $ 857.48 on October 27th was issued to Discover credit card for the Excess Material only, no labor refund involved). After the cabinets were installed it was apparent that the backsplash tiles chosen by
(not a designer) was not appropriate for the kitchen design and that the Island color was not correct either for the kitchen cabinet color/design.
had subsequently been terminated from
’s. Also the first week of October we were informed that
was leaving
’s and someone else would be in charge of our project. We hired a certified kitchen designer/consultant at our own expense ($300) to advise us on the correct backsplash and island color. [We subsequently returned the tile to
’s on November 15 for a refund credit ($268.64 for tile only) and ordered the proper tile and installation from another company.] The first week in October, the online invoices which we had already paid started changing with items added and some items showing returned (with no credit to us). Then some other invoices showed up with labor charges and returns (none of the returns were credited to either our Discover card or our
card). It made analyzing the charges very difficult so we started trying to make sense of what was done, what labor had been done, and what was not done and what the refund amount should be. Changing invoices after they were settled, especially showing returns with no credit to the customer, seemed unethical if not illegal. On October 14 we met with
Hosted, assistant manager, about our project. He seemed receptive to our input listing all outstanding items to be done for our project. He said that they had a
’s gift card ($417.64) for us to settle the amount of overcharge for labor. Since only a small portion of the labor charges had been paid via gift card, we stated that we didn’t want a gift card which restricted our purchases to
’s only and wanted a credit to either the
credit card or to Discover and the overcharge for labor was considerably more than the $417.64. He said he would get back with us. The cabinet installer was waiting for a piece of molding that was needed for him to finish the cabinets and prepare for the oven and cabinet surface to be installed. He had informed
and
on September 15 that it was needed, and we found that had not been ordered when we met with
. This was holding up the entire project. It was ordered the next week. (October 24th). The cabinet installation was completed in the first week of November. Meanwhile we had not heard any more from
, assistant manager, so I called him on November 13th and stated that we needed to get the labor bill straightened out, and he again told me that they were holding the $417.64 gift card for us to settle the labor bill. I wanted to meet to show him all the invoices and my analysis of them (I have all documented). He stated that he wanted to look at it some more and would call back. I didn’t hear any more from him until November 18th when I received an envelope with the $417.64 gift card in it with no other information or explanation even though I had already told him a gift card was not an acceptable form of reimbursement. On November 24th, I called the store manager, explaining the situation. He said he would look into it and call me back that day and he even asked when I would be home since I had a doctor appointment in the afternoon. He didn’t call so I faxed him my worksheets the next day. He had never returned the call. On December 1 I called the District Installation Sales and faxed the work sheets to her. I explained the problem and that it appeared between the amounts we paid ($6,864.51) and charges for work performed ($4668.15), we are owed $2196.36. She said that there was a notation in our file that a refund of over $900+ was to be credited back to us for the backsplash installation cancellation but so far no credit for this amount has shown up on any credit card. I am still holding the gift card and will not accept just store credit for the owed amount. We will now escalate the complaint to Discover and to Angie’s List for further action. On December 16, my Discover statement arrived and I saw a credit from
for $628.19 on 12/5/14 that I was not familiar with. I looked at my
invoice listing and saw a new Return Order for return of labor for backsplash installation. However the return order stated that $957.59 was credited, not the $628.19 credit on the Discover statement. On December 17th I called the District Installation Sales manager, this time speaking to a gentleman who was unfamiliar with previous calls to that office. He stated that something looked wrong and that he would email the store manager for an explanation and would call me back. As of December 18th, there was no call back. On December 22, 2014, still no call back but I received in the mail a
’s Merchandise Card for 329.40 with only a cash
receipt show a return of $957.59 and a credit to Discover for the $628.19 and a Merchandise Card for the balance of $329.40. The amount paid was not with a merchandise card so this is not acceptable. The envelope was handwritten on a
“window” envelope and no other explanation in the envelope. On December 23, 2014, I called the district installation sales office again and this time spoke to
who was not familiar with any of the previous calls, so I explained again about receiving a “
gift card” and that was not a satisfactory method of reimbursement for the refund. I also let her know that I had let the sales in the kitchen department know this, as well as
Hosted assistant manager, the store manager, and the district installation sales managers. I let
know that we were returning the gift cards to the store manager in the next few days. She said that she would contact the store manager and would let her manager know of the situation. I told her she could contact me via email if she wished since I had not had any returned calls from anyone up the chain of managers. I have copies of all the modified invoices and an analysis spreadsheet of the labor charges that were both charged and supposedly returned. Note that we received credit card refunds for only the materials returned and part of the last return order. I am not disputing whether the amount charged for each of services, but that we did not receive proper credit for the amounts marked returned in their computer without us knowing it.

-DOUGLAS S.

A
"I worked with
at
Kitchen and Bath. She was fabulous! She took a project that many designers were scared of (basically" reconfiguring half of my first floor) and turned it into a masterpiece. I am thrilled with the design of the kitchen and also the quality of the materials purchased from
. A project so large was difficult for me to manage with business travel.
didn't hesitate to make trips to my house to check in with the contractors during my travel, or call them on my behalf to ensure the end result was perfect. I absolutely recommend
's kitchen design services and would use again if I ever have another kitchen
.

-Sara N.

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Angie's Answers

?
Todd said it best.

An itemized list / cost breakdown, more often than not is used against the contractor when it is shared with other builders who will then beat it.

Good contractors use good people, and good people cost more.  Just the cost of having the appropriate insurance / bond can be the difference between winning a job or losing it ot a 'lower bid'.

It is the rule of three; there is Good, Cheap and Fast.  You can have any two:  Good and Cheap, won't be Fast; Good and Fast, won't be Cheap;  Cheap and Fast, won't be Good!

When comparing bids, it isn't the cheapest or the 'nicest' person you should select.   You should understand why there is a large price difference (it shows there are gaps in your design program or what you have asked for specifically, which means there may be arguments later).  If most of the bids are in line, and one is way high or way low,  you want to know why before dismissing or selecting them.

A price-only decision almost always costs more in the long run. 

Good luck!
?
There are two sides to this and everyone will have an opinion.  I can tell you that from a contractor's point of view a customer that is up front with me is much easier to work with and the entire experience is much more pleasurable to all parties involved.  If you treat your contractor like there's always something to hide from him expect the same in return.  A good contractor is going to take your budget into consideration and make recommendations based on that budget.  When possible, he's going to estimate the work 10-20% under your target to leave room for the unexpected.  With any remodeling work, there's always the possibility and likelihood that there will be surprises that will have to be added such as mold damage, improper existing framing, etc.  The cushion allows room for the project cost to grow without going over your budget.  If no problems are found and you decide to spend that money some of the final finishes can be upgraded or other projects added.

Another good arguement for disclosing your budget to your contractor is to save you both some time and aggrevation.  You may have a $10,000 budget and want $30,000 worth of work.  Wouldn't you like to know your desires aren't possible before you get your hopes up or spend money on design fees for plans you can't afford?  Likewise, the contractor doesn't want to put in the hours of calculating the estimate only to find out it was all for nothing or that he has to refigure for a much lower cost after pricing what you specified.

Be fair and honest with your contractor if you expect the same respect in return.  You'll get a lot more out of it with the right contractor.

Todd Shell
Todd's Home Services
San Antonio, TX
?

Herlonginc's answer stated that it is not the contractor's job to pay for materials and labor to do the job. I say baloney - a reputable, established contractor has the funds (or a business operations line of credit) to "carry" the job between interim or partial payments, each of which should be keyed to completion of distinct easily measured mileposts in the job, and for a homeowner I would say should be in not more than 20% increments for jobs exceeding a week or so. For shorter jobs, then an initial payment, 50% completion, and completion would be normal. His cost of carry funds is part of his cost of doing business, and is figured as part of his overhead.Bear in mind when he is buying materials and paying labor, his materials he typically pays for on a 10-30 day invoice, and his labor typically a week or two after they work, so he is not really "fronting" that much money if you are giving him weekly or biweekly interim payments, on a typical residential job.

If he does not have the funds to buy materials (excepting possibly deposit on special-order or luxury items, which still typically are 10-30 day invoiceable to him) and hire personnel then he is a fly-by-night operation, and he should not be bidding that size job. You should never (other than MAYBE an earnest deposit of not more than the LESSER of 10% or $5000) let the payments get ahead of the approved/inspected work progress - typically payment should be 10-20% BEHIND the progress, with at least 10% retained at the effective end of work until final inspections and completion of the final "punchlist".

That promotes rapid continuation of the work, discourages the all-too common nightmare of contractors taking on more work than they can handle so they leave your job for weeks or months to go work on someone else's job (frequently to start that someone else's new job so he can get the job), and does not leave you out a tremendous amount of cash if he does not finish and you have to hire another contractor to finish the job. Remember, if you have to hire a new contractor to finish the job, he will charge you a lot more than the original bid to finish someone else's unfinished mess.

This may seem cynical, but having started in the construction business about 50 years ago and seeing the shenanigans that a lot of contractors pull you cannot be too safe. You have to remember contractors are like any other people - I would say maybe 10% are outright crooks, another 25% or so will pull a fast one or overcharge if the opportunity presents itself, maybe 30% will do the work but not any better than they are forced to, about 25% are good conscientious reputable workmen, and the last 10% or so are really spectacular - conscientious, fair, and efficient craftsmen. This top 35% are the only ones you should have bidding in the first place. Therefore, only get bids from long-term reputable firms (so you shake out the marginal short-timers with less experience and also generally less ability to finish the job on budget and schedule), only those that have good RECENT references, and preferably with excellent word-of-mouth recommendation from people you know and trust. That way, you are starting right off with the cream of the crop, so hopefully whichever one bids low should be a good choice.

NEVER start with bids, then check the references of the low bidder - why even consider a vendor or contractor who you do not have faith in from the start ? Get references and short-list you possibles BEFORE you ask for bids.

Low bids - that is another matter - commonly the low bidder is NOT who you want, especially if he is significantly lower than several others, which might mean he is desperate for work, made a math error, or did not correctly figure the entire scope of work. You want a reasonable bid with someone you connect with and trust - that is worth a lot more in the success of the job than the absolute lowest bid.

 

?
You should always get a set of print and pull a permit when remodeling you home. It is a good thing that you want to be involved in your project. I do have some reservation about the electrical work. There is a lot at risk with doing the work yourself. If the house burns down you will never get the insurance money, unless your a certified electrician. Now of days 90% of home fires are blamed on electrical problems because the insurance company is to lazy and cheap to investigate the true problem. Also find out if the city you live in will allow you to perform the work. Make sure you coordinate your subs to have the proper time and space to perform their job. You don't want people working on top of each other. If you order all you materials make sure everything is there before you start your project. Have your subs check for proper and full items to be installed. Make sure every sub has a working set of prints. Make sure you have all the demo done before your subs show up to work. Schedule your plumber first, do any final framing or electrical work while you wait for inspection. Electrical inspection next followed by framing, insulation, and wallboard. All subs must get a final inspection on the job before you (the GC) can call in your final inspection.
?
The answer depends on your contract.  If you do not have a written contract, you need to begin documenting everything.  Begin by using a calendar and marking the days the contractor started, worked, you had to speak to him/her about the work, etc.

Next photograph the work you feel is sub-par.  If work has been corrected, photograph it now to have a record of its condition.  If you have any "original" or "before work began" pictures get those together, too.

If you do have written contract, see what it says about warranties, complaints, failure to finish / comply, etc.  Holding the money may end up with the contractor taking YOU to court for the funds - you cannot just hold the money.  You need to document in writing what is wrong, what you expect to happen (be specific) and when it should happen by.  A good contract will explain if and how money can be held, how the arbitration or complaint is filed, etc.

You should also invite another contractor to come in and bid the work to finish the job.  They can confirm the quality of the work and give you a price to fix / finish the job.  This gives you justification for holding the funds and an option to finish the job.

If the contractor is not willing to fix the work or listen to direction, do not allow them back in the house.  A judge will ask you why you let them continue to do work if you found it unacceptable.  Take back the key or access to the building - you can also attempt holding any materials or tools as collateral if the cost of repair is higher than the amount owed.  Again, document what you are holding, its estimated value (google or ebay search), etc.

Finally, in writing you should fire the contractor and state the exact reason(s).  Document everything; if it is done in person after they leave make notes of what was said, agreed upon and disputed.  If you are satisfied that what you have paid is fair compensation for the work done, make sure this is noted in the letter firing the contractor.  If you feel money is owed, you will need to file a small claim in your local court.  Include the documentation you made, notes, letters, etc. when you file your claim so the judge will have a copy of everything.  Don't forget to contact the BBB.

Do not wait for the court date; go ahead and hire the other contractor and have the work completed.  Bring this invoice to court with you (file it before the court date if you can).  Bring photos of the finished work (again, file it with the court before the date if possible).  You must show what good quality work looks like vs the poor quality work.

Otherwise it will be a your word against the contractor and you will most likely lose, (the contract is a promise to pay for work) or even if you "win" you will most likely split the difference between the argued amount of money.  Also be prepared for the contractor to file a small court claim against you.  Same process as above, except now you will respond to the summons with a copy of your stuff to defend your reason for holding funds instead of asking for money back.

Good luck!
?
Yes, you can ask for these items.  Second Century Homes answered your question well - most contractors do not do a break down to prevent haggling on items that shouldn't be part of the discussion.  People sometimes forget to allow the builder to make money. . .  Builders also want the entire job, not the nickle and dime menu selected items - you may find the contractor says "Thanks, but no thanks" if you ask them to remove portions of the work.

The real question is why do you need this break down?  If you are thinking you will do the demo yourself to save money, you can certainly tell your contractor this - but I would be willing to bet once you buy or rent the tools, haul the trash to the correct disposal dump (many trash dumps will not take home building materials anymore) and clean up / prep for the new work - you will have spent more and delayed the project more than just letting the professionals do it. Plus, do not be surprised when they still have to do additional demo work that you didn't know would be needed to complete the job, etc.

Also keep in mind that cutting portions of the work out of the job to do later is not a money saving move.  You will find that the cost for the individual items go up when done seperately - the contractor has to come back multiple times, has to set the equipment back up, possibly pull seperate permits, schedule the work crew / subs, etc.

If you are asking for the break down to compare bids, then again, tell the contractors what numbers you want to see.  If you are doing it because you feel the total price is too high, have a discussion with your contractor; they may be able to suggest ways to save costs, etc.  Ultimately if you know the materail costs, and have the total figure, you can do a pretty good estimate of the percentage for labor and profit in the job.

It is your project and your contract, so you can ask for anything you want on the quote - just be clear on why you want the information so the contractor can work with you.

Good luck!

Home Improvement Store reviews in Keota

B

Rating
Did not get name of associate in the garden glove and Christmas light area. She was African-American or dark-skinned, fairly young, and she was most courteous and came up with some very creative solutions, which went a long way toward their not having the Christmas lights advertised as in-store in on line advertisement. Those things seem in error so much. We left happier because of her, in spite of having to pay a lot more for lights than on-line in-stock indicated!
- lisa C.
F

Rating
In late June, 2014, my wife and I went to
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
to inquire about replacing our kitchen flooring with tile. With the help of the salesperson, we picked out some nice looking tile which we were told would be $6.00/sq ft (including for installation). We paid a $50.00 deposit and
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
sent a person to measure our kitchen....More /> The measurement came to 79.2 sq ft (although I had measured the kitchen at 53 sq ft). Even so, the cost (based on the original discussion) should have bee $475.20. However the total price was $938.74 with several items added that had not been disclosed originally.
We placed the order. The material was ordered and I picked it up on 27
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
. The installer arrived and promptly told us the old flooring probably contained asbestos . We had to provide a certificate that it was free of asbestos. We hired an inspector and received a certificate that we were "asbestos-free." This inspection cost us an additional $275.00.
Then we were told that we had to move the refrigerator out of the kitchen. We hired a mover to move the refrigerator on the morning of the installation and put it back in the next day. This was estimated to be about $200.00 for each move (door to door charges applied). We made these arrangements and scheduled the new installation for 2 September
That morning the movers arrived followed shortly by the installer, who walked into the kitchen, exclaimed "Holy S**t, I can't install on this floor." and walked out. I called the manager of the installation contractor who told me that the floor was too wavy and that
it exceeded the specifications for the tile. He said I had to go back to
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
and order sheet vinyl, rather than tile. We were both disappointed, but went back to
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
and ordered sheet vinyl. We were told delivery would take three weeks.
We never heard from
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
again. We did get repeated emails from the installation contractor asking "How did we
do?" I called their manager repeatedly. He was never in, but I left a message for him to call back. He never did.
In the end, we called another flooring company on the recommendation of a previous contractor we had used. This company, "Fantastic Floors" came out and estimated the job. We booked them to install the original tile week later. Their crew came and were done in three hours. In addition, their installation cost was less than the
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
contractor.
- Richard N.
F

Rating
They refused my claim saying the delivery company who they chose and they billed me for was responsible. This company had no insurance and would not respond to the damage claim. I expect to
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
both to collect.
- GERALD N.
A

Rating
I'm not sure why Angie's List has annoyed me for 2 years over a review for a particular
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
store when it was just a
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
gift card. Nevertheless, here's my review. Never been to this NC
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
location. I'm sure it's great.
- Justin K.
B

Rating
Sales rep was knowledgeable, helpful, showed me a variety and explained the differences between them - primarily efficiency differences.
- Jo Anne F.
A

Rating
I took back some items that I had purchased from
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
, and in the transaction I showed some stuff that had originally come from "Lowes". The clerck said no problem, I'll just give you store credit for the Lowes stuff. What a great experience!!!
- Wesley A.
A

Rating
The business is family owned and operated: son (
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
) and father (Rich). Our goal was a wood-burning insert. After two home visits and measurements, and research by
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
’s, an inspection-grade insert wasn’t commercially available for our Townhouse fireplace – dimensions being short by inches. Our $2,000 deposit was promptly refunded, after which we embarked on upgrading our fireplace panels. Throughout the process,
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
was in continual dialogue as to ordering, installation, and post-install feedback. I might add we were NOT a high-priced customer, and I believe our fireplace maintenance job took significantly more time and interface than a high-end upgrade and installation.
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
’s is extremely busy installing gas-driven fireplaces during the late Fall and early Winter timeframe – during our experience. (Note: there’s no gas service to my neighborhood, or I’d have a
Keota Lumber Stores Provider Name Locked
’s gas-driven fireplace right now as I type.) However we never knew the difference. We were treated as if we were buying the moon from them. I recommend them highly for any and all fireplace needs. JR


- Kent G.

All Lumber Stores in Keota, OK

Companies below are listed in alphabetical order. To view top rated service providers along with reviews and ratings, Join Angie's List Now!

ACE Hardware Corporation

814 West Center St

C & P TRAILER & LUMBER SALES

18262 US HIGHWAY 59
Keota

DirectBuy of Indianapolis

8450 Westfield Blvd

Kolor Key, Inc.

5912 S. 28th St

Meadors Lumber Co

218 Commerce Dr

RepairClinic.com Inc

48600 Michigan Ave

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